Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[ET2SN]

[mapuc]

Not gonna happen

https://twitter.com/BRICSinfo/status...71966152888777

Markus

[Skybird]

^ At least not during a runnign war, that can indeed be ruled out.
After that it spossiboe that NATO membership will come earleir than eU membership, because EU membership will be incredibly much more costly for Europe than NATO membership.

The financial costs will be fantastic.

Calculations on the running costs for the war show that it costed Germany - state and economy - already 200 billion.

[Dargo]

^That is what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Ukraine will join, only question is when.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

^That is what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Ukraine will join, only question is when.

Not as long they are fighting a war their ain't invited.

Think Stoltenberg once said that Ukraine could become a member for the price of giving Russia these occupied areas-Which Ukraine rejected.

Read something interesting today in a Danish newspaper.

Russia is not going to send their soldiers into a NATO country-What Putin will do is sending thousands of little green men(Soldiers without flag emblem on their shoulders)Like he did in Crimea.

Markus

[Skybird]

Stage thunder.

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[NZZ]French President Emmanuel Macron is not ruling out the deployment of ground troops in Ukraine by his country. Nothing is ruled out to prevent a Russian victory in Ukraine, said Macron after the conclusion of a Ukraine aid conference in Paris. Although there was no consensus on the deployment of ground troops at the meeting of over twenty heads of state and government, nothing could be ruled out in the future dynamic, said Macron. Each country could decide independently and sovereignly on the deployment of ground troops.
"The general observation today is that the security of all of us is at stake," said Macron at the start of the conference, which was organized at short notice. Russia's stance was hardening both at a political level and on the front in Ukraine, where new Russian attacks were threatening. A Russian defeat is necessary for stability and security in Europe. That is why Ukraine's supporters need to give themselves a jolt. "We are in the process of ensuring our security today and tomorrow," said Macron. "We do not want to go to war with the Russian people," the President also said.
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As I see it, the French land forces are in no state to deploy to Ukraine all by themselves and then fight Russia. The only land forces in NATO that could do that and are not the Americans, are probably the Turkish - last but not least because they have the numbers. Not the French. Not the British. Not the Germans. And Poland is busy with its own security concerns at home.
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Selensky does not do his cause a favour when he gave Ukrainian KIAs a number and made it "31000". That number is absolutely implausible. Now he has claimed the offensive last year failed due to treason. That is not implausible, treason plays a role in every military conflict between nations, but to make it sound as if this were the main cause, again damages his trustworthiness. Finally he annoucned another offensive - this year, if I understood him correctly. Well, we will see. I wonder with what they want to push it? Do like the Russians and send body waves?

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Ex-Army chief joins calls to prepare for UK conscription

Can you imagine being a drill sergeant for that army tasked with calling recruits by their proper pronouns?

Recruit Pony front and center!

Whinny whinny Sarge!

[Skybird]

[Frankfurter Rundschau] Nato grows to 32 states with Sweden: Hungary agreed to join on Monday. On the same day, Kremlin leader Putin signed two decrees and reorganized the military structure in Russia.
Moscow - The military situation in Ukraine is tense. Kiev's troops are coming under increasing pressure due to a lack of ammunition. Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed two decrees on Monday (26 February) that reorganize the military in Russia. In doing so, the Kremlin leader is pursuing two goals, analyzed the war experts at the US think tank Institute for the Study of War (ISW). One of these is to prepare for a possible large-scale conventional war against NATO.

After months of stalling, Hungary approved Stockholm's application for membership of the North Atlantic defense alliance NATO on Monday. On the same day, Putin ordered a reorganization of his military structure. What sounds like a bureaucratic act at first glance may provide an insight into strategic plans. According to ISW, the decrees signed by the Kremlin chief officially re-establish the Moscow and Leningrad military districts and withdraw the Russian Northern Fleet's status as headquarters. The military district commands are thus to be restored as the primary headquarters for the Russian ground forces and the naval resources are to be assigned to the Russian navy, the ISW report continues.

The second decree also incorporates the Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk regions of occupied Ukraine into the southern military district. In 2022, Moscow held sham referendums in Ukraine and annexed the four regions in violation of international law - as it had already done with the Crimean peninsula in 2014. The inclusion of "both the occupied and unoccupied parts of Ukrainian territory also indicates that Russia is pursuing maximalist goals in Ukraine and is seeking to fully incorporate all five of these Ukrainian territories into the Russian Federation", according to the ISW analysis.

The US war experts go on to say that the realignment supports the parallel goals of "consolidating control over Russian operations in Ukraine in the short to medium term and preparing for a possible future large-scale conventional war against NATO in the long term." The Leningrad military district will now run along NATO's north-eastern border, while the Moscow military district will border north-eastern Ukraine and Poland. This would allow Russia to "simultaneously position itself against NATO and maintain its command and control over the region".

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...bruary-26-2024

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I'm not sure the US has truly had any of these since WW2.

[Jimbuna]

Putin's puppet issues warning war with West 'inevitable' if NATO sends troops to Ukraine

The Kremlin warned sending NATO boots on to the Ukrainian battlefield would result in an "inevitable" conflict with Russia.

Hours after French President Emmanuel Macron cast doubt the Western military alliance could be considering sending soldiers to fight alongside Ukrainians, the press secretary of Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Peskov, issued a swift threat.

He said: "In this case, we need to talk not about the likelihood, but about the inevitability [of a conflict]. That's how we evaluate it.

"These countries must also evaluate and be aware of this, asking themselves whether this corresponds to their interests, as well as the interests of the citizens of their countries."

Since Russia launched its illegal invasion of Ukraine, Western allies have been careful in stressing no government was sending soldiers to fight alongside Volodymyr Zelensky's men and women.
Western nations, rather, have been supporting the Ukrainian efforts to liberate the nation from its invaders by issuing economic sanctions against Russia and providing humanitarian and military aid.

As the latter is dwindling and Russia conquered the frontline city of Avdiivka, fears in the West are growing over a possible victory of the Kremlin on the battlefield, which could lead to another European nation being invaded.

The first suggestion NATO may be considering sending troops to Ukraine came during the afternoon of February 26 from the Slovakian Prime Minister, pro-Russia Robert Fico, who was one of the 17 EU leaders to attend an international summit in Paris hosted by Mr Macron.

Citing a "restricted document" listing topics he would soon discuss with fellow politicians, he said: "These topics imply that a number of NATO and EU member states are considering sending troops to Ukraine on a bilateral basis. I can't say for what purpose or what they would do there."

Following the event, which aimed at bolstering the support from the West to Ukraine amid fears the US may soon close the tap of military aid, Mr Macron seemingly stoked the doubt Russia may eventually face NATO soldiers in eastern Europe.

He said: "There is no consensus to officially back any ground troops. That said, nothing should be excluded. We will do everything that we can to make sure that Russia does not prevail."

On Tuesday, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg tried to quash the concerns sparked by Mr Macron's words, and stressed the support provided to Ukraine by the military alliance will continue not to involve foreign soldiers in the war-torn nation.

He told the Associated Press: "NATO allies are providing unprecedented support to Ukraine. We have done that since 2014 and stepped up after the full-scale invasion. But there are no plans for NATO combat troops on the ground in Ukraine."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...5892875c&ei=27

[mapuc]

Many country here in the west are refusing sending troops to Ukraine. As said before there will be troops in Ukraine but not ordinary soldiers from NATO, no it will be UN-troops guarding the new border, which will run through the frontline as it is when a ceasefire has been agreed upon.

This I'm certain of the day NATO decide to send troops to Ukraine will be the the end of WWIII- WWIII Started when Russia invaded Ukraine.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Macron says Russian defeat in Ukraine vital for security in Europe

French President Emmanuel Macron has said it is key for Europe's security to defeat Russia in Ukraine, amid urgent pleas for more weapons from Kyiv.

He was speaking in Paris where he said that European leaders had agreed to set up a coalition to give Ukraine medium- and long-range missiles and bombs.

He added that there was "no consensus" on sending Western troops to Ukraine, but that "nothing should be excluded".

Russian troops have recently made gains in Ukraine which faces arms shortages.

Kyiv is critically dependent on modern armoury supplies from its Western allies, particularly the US, to be able to continue fighting Russia - a far bigger military force with an abundance of artillery ammunition.

But the approval of a much needed $95bn (£75bn) US aid package - including $61bn for Ukraine - faces an uphill battle in the House of Representatives.

Last weekend, Ukraine's defence minister said half of all Western aid for Kyiv had been delayed, costing lives and territory.

In response to Mr Macron, a spokesperson for UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said his government had no plans for a large-scale military deployment to Ukraine, beyond the small number of personnel already training Ukrainian forces.

Germany, Sweden, Poland and the Czech Republic have also ruled out such suggestions.

On Friday, Hungary blocked a statement sent to EU member countries by the European Council President Charles Michel, pledging "unwavering" support for Ukraine.

Prime Minister Viktor Orban - the only EU leader who maintains warm relations with Russia's President Vladimir Putin - has been repeatedly at odds with the bloc over measures to help Kyiv since Russia's invasion.

On Tuesday, Hungary's foreign minister reiterated that Budapest is not willing to send weapons or troops to Ukraine.

Peter Szijjarto said: "The war in Ukraine must be finished, not expanded."

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov called Mr Macron's suggestion "a very important new element" adding it was absolutely not in the interests of Nato members.

"In that case, we would need to talk not about the probability, but about the inevitability [of direct conflict]", said Mr Peskov.

Earlier, Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg denied considering whether troops would be sent to Ukraine, although he insisted the alliance would continue to support Kyiv strongly.

As Kyiv struggles to secure more aid and weapons to continue fighting Russia, the Kremlin's need for extra ammunition has reportedly taken it to an unlikely player in this war.

South Korea says that North Korea has shipped as many as three million shells to Russia, for use in its war in Ukraine. Its defence minister, Shin Won-sik, said that in return, Moscow had sent thousands of containers of food.

Both Moscow and Pyongyang deny North Korea is supplying Russia with munitions.

A full-scale invasion of Ukraine launched by Russian President Vladimir Putin is now in its third year, with no signs that the biggest war in Europe since World War Two could end soon.

Monday's crisis meeting in support of Ukraine was attended by heads of European states, including German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, and top government officials like UK Foreign Secretary David Cameron.

Delegations from the US and Canada were also present.

President Macron said: "We are convinced that the defeat of Russia is indispensable to security and stability in Europe."

Describing Russia as the "sole aggressor", he said, "We are not at war with the Russian people. We just don't want to let them win.".

Mr Macron announced that a coalition would provide Ukraine with "missiles and bombs of medium and long range to carry out deep strikes". He did not say when such weapons would be delivered.

And he did not rule out sending Western ground troops to Ukraine but acknowledged that differences remained among the allies.

"There was no consensus today to send troops on to the ground in an manner that's official, assumed and endorsed," he said. "But on the dynamic, nothing should be excluded. We will do everything so that Russia cannot win this war."

"We should not exclude that there might be a need for security that then justifies some elements of deployment," he added. "But I've told you very clearly what France maintains as its position, which is a strategic ambiguity that I stand by."

Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala earlier said his country had no intention of deploying its forces to fight in Ukraine.

He was reacting to comments by his Slovak counterpart Robert Fico, who was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying: "I can confirm there are countries that are prepared to send their own troops to Ukraine, there are countries that say never, among which Slovakia belongs, and there are countries that say this proposal needs to be considered."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who also took part in Monday's meeting by video link, said that "everything we do together to defend against Russian aggression adds real security to our nations for decades to come".

Russia has repeatedly warned that any Western troop deployment in Ukraine would trigger a direct conflict between Moscow and the Nato military alliance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68410219

[mapuc]

"Peter Szijjarto said: "The war in Ukraine must be finished, not expanded.""

Imagine if UK and USA said almost the same in 1943/44
- the war in Europe must be finished, not continue

Markus

[Skybird]

If this is true (I have no clue) then it might be the reason why Scholz is against delivering the Taurus - and maybe he is even right. I would hate to admit that he is right on anything, but if for once it would be so - then it would be so.

[Focus] The "Taurus" has the heaviest warhead among the western systems of the same category and it also has the greater thrust. This gives it unparalleled agility in the final attack phase and enormous effectiveness even against hardened targets such as bunkers. Alternatively, it can also be used to great effect against area targets such as airfields.

Its mission data is loaded before the mission or even needs to be updated during the approach to the target. Planning and mission management is highly complex and crucial for an optimal approach route and attack profile. This requires specialists with many years of training. The Chancellor is right. German soldiers would have to lead the Ukraine either on the ground or rather from a distance - with a lot of additional effort - in the attack operations and also provide and continuously update top secret data libraries with electronic identifiers of enemy defense systems and much more.

This is precisely where Chancellor Scholz's argument comes in, who - unlike England or France - deliberately does not want any German soldiers to be involved in planning or even fighting Russian targets, either on the ground in Ukraine or from Germany. Scholz said: "This clarity is necessary. I am surprised that some people ... don't even think about whether what we are doing could result in involvement in war, so to speak."

If "Taurus" systems were to be delivered to Ukraine, this system would first have to be technically integrated. This would take around a year, even if Ukraine were to use western F-16 fighter jets for this purpose. In view of the limited German stocks of the cruise missile, it should be borne in mind that production cannot be resumed for around a year due to the current long-term supply bottlenecks for some of the electronics and the special metal for the hardened warhead.
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I again refer to Colonel'S Reisner'S criticism of focussing so exclusively on the Taurus. What Ukraine needs before anything else currently, is 155mm ammo and air defence ammo. But the Ukrainian calculation when insisting on taurus might be right this: to bring Germany and with it: NATO, into the war.

[Jimbuna]

I'm not sure Ukraine have a year.

I'm led to believe that the hard core Republicans (those most loyal to Trump) are acting under his orders when blocking the current US aid package.

No prizes for guessing what Trump will do first day/s in office should he become POTUS