Terrorist attack in Paris on French magazine

[Skybird]

"Overblown".

In the light of the numbers, such comments speak for themselves, no further comment needed.



Again, this, from a Turkish author:

"The magic formula "This has nothing to do with Islam" does not work anymore: A call for more honesty, thoughtfulness and self-criticism among Muslims" - Hit the translate button:
https://translate.google.de/translat...ehr&edit-text=

German original:
http://www.achgut.com/dadgdx/index.p...eht_nicht_mehr



And as Hirsi-Ali had put it: "We can no longer pretend that it is possible to divorce actions from the ideals that inspire them." - Thats what I am saying all the time - its the ideology, man.

[Oberon]

There's certainly a lot of ideology going around...

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Overblown.... Do you know how many are killed, tortured, raped throughout the world daily from radical Islam throughout the world daily?

Yeah, I am informed. You're the one who thinks that one of two EU countries to ban the hijab is doing "everything possible" to appease Muslims. So be careful.

I'm saying that "worldwide jihad" isn't an appropriate way to phrase the issue. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, I'm saying it's not a worldwide problem.

Look at North & South America, Australia, China/Japan, Russia, SE Asia, Southern Africa, Europe. Incidents yes. Constant turmoil and conflict, no.

So the problem you're describing isn't one that is worldwide. It's a very serious problem for the Middle East, large parts of Africa, and South Asia.

Radical cells continue to grow, but the issue is all the support behind it. Millions suffer from political Islam itself, because it's a religion of economic poverty.

Religious adherence and economic power tend to be counterlinked. One goes up and the other goes down.

Stable governance and economic growth coupled with fair and representative government is the solution for a lot of these places, and it's the lack of same that drives religious fundamentalism and religious violence. I imagine we might disagree on root causes thereof.

Now, what you might mean, it's not a major problem for the modern world, but it is...but it's a terrible problem for the third world and the radicals recruit from such....

Well that's not exactly what I meant, but very true regardless.

Originally Posted by Skybird

"Overblown".

In the light of the numbers, such comments speak for themselves, no further comment needed.

Jolly good. The less hatred you post the better.

The next time you think no comment is needed, try doing just that. Not commenting.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yeah, I am informed. You're the one who thinks that one of two EU countries to ban the hijab is doing "everything possible" to appease Muslims. So be careful.

I'm saying that "worldwide jihad" isn't an appropriate way to phrase the issue. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, I'm saying it's not a worldwide problem.

Look at North & South America, Australia, China/Japan, Russia, SE Asia, Southern Africa, Europe. Incidents yes. Constant turmoil and conflict, no.

So the problem you're describing isn't one that is worldwide. It's a very serious problem for the Middle East, large parts of Africa, and South Asia.

Religious adherence and economic power tend to be counterlinked. One goes up and the other goes down.

Stable governance and economic growth coupled with fair and representative government is the solution for a lot of these places, and it's the lack of same that drives religious fundamentalism and religious violence. I imagine we might disagree on root causes thereof.



Well that's not exactly what I meant, but very true regardless.



Jolly good. The less hatred you post the better.

The next time you think no comment is needed, try doing just that. Not commenting.

I find that laughable, a few nations don't have issues. France just got a small taste of minor terrorism. a big dose could be soon coming. The fact that radical groups thrive in basically radical political systems will continue to spill into the modern world. Overblown, 9/11 basically changed America forever and a few men shut down our entire airspace....

So keep your head in the sand as radical Islam spreads throughout Asia, Africa and the ME....that's not much of the world.......choke.....Ignore constant genocide yearly, not happening to you. Ignore the experts that say in the next few decades they will gain weapons of mass destruction. Let's wait until the big event to get our heads out of the sand....

A rotten apple can spoil the entire bunch. The world can continue to appease, but major events, wars, big acts of terror that will change nations are coming. This all the experts agree on. We can act as the world or we can react after it happens...

[Catfish]

@Skybird, and others:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Neal,
[...]Take the teachings of the Christ, and show me where he called for the violant submission of others, where he asked his followers for assassinating critics of his, where he taught the blind obedience to a cult or to himself, where he taught that the church should be founded and its representatives should be obeyed, show me where he taught that martyrdom in the killing of infidels is a virtue, and where he mocked his followers if they were not willing to sacrifice themselves, show me were he ordered for wears of attack and genocide of opposing tribes and different cults.[...]

I guess you have never read the bible ? It is full of atrocities, everywhere.
And i have to laugh when people fight over the opinion, which religion is the more peaceful.


Only one of hundreds:
"And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword. But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king’s word was abominable to Joab. And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel. And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly . . .
So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. (I Chronicles 21:9-14)"

And if you say the Old testament should not be read, but only the new – why ? Because Martin Luther made a toned-down version of the original, most "christians" still believe in?

New testament, Matthew: Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Oh yes, "The LORD is a man of war.Exodus 15:3"


The list of atrocities in the bibel is longer than in the Quran.
The only reason that christians claim their god and Jesus is soo peaceful is obviously, that they never actually read the book.


Main difference is that neither the bible nor the Quran should be taken literally, anymore. And they aren't by most, and scientifiv theology.
The word is self-criticism.
Not that any western superpower has any more of it, than anyone in the middle east.


Most people who are angry need a reason for their destructive work, and some passages taken out of context, from the Quran or the bible (or damning any minority) always comes in handy as a justification for their dumbness. It does not have much to do with the real thing though.

Another difference is, that even priests cannot afford to send people to war anymore,
since this is an exclusive right of the governments and their media propaganda by now.

[Tchocky]

Yup, that's exactly what I was getting at.

I'm hoping to open up a sand & gravel shop to make a few dollars off the head-burying.

That and a slaughterhouse where Skybird can bring all the marchers to be turned into food.

Or something.

[Oberon]

I see appease and appeasement being used a lot of late

[Tchocky]

It all depends on mindset, Oberon.

If you want to hammer down on Muslims, then "appeasement" is defined as "anything that happens in the years preceding an act of terrorism".

Easy peasy.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Skybird, and others:


I guess you have never read the bible ? It is full of atrocities, everywhere.
And i have to laugh when people fight over the opinion, which religion is the more peaceful.


Only one of hundreds:
"And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword. But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king’s word was abominable to Joab. And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel. And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly . . .
So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. (I Chronicles 21:9-14)"

And if you say the Old testament should not be read, but only the new – why ? Because Martin Luther made a toned-down version of the original, most "christians" still believe in?

New testament, Matthew: Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Oh yes, "The LORD is a man of war.Exodus 15:3"


The list of atrocities in the bibel is longer than in the Quran.
The only reason that christians claim their god and Jesus is soo peaceful is obviously, that they never actually read the book.


Main difference is that neither the bible nor the Quran should be taken literally, anymore. And they aren't by most, and scientifiv theology.
The word is self-criticism.
Not that any western superpower has any more of it, than anyone in the middle east.


Most people who are angry need a reason for their destructive work, and some passages taken out of context, from the Quran or the bible (or damning any minority) always comes in handy as a justification for their dumbness. It does not have much to do with the real thing though.

Another difference is, that even priests cannot afford to send people to war anymore,
since this is an exclusive right of the governments and their media propaganda by now.

Ah, you missed the part where I said:

"Take the teachings of the Christ, (...) I do not talk about archaic Judaism and pre-Christian times, I do not talk about church dogmata and churchian powerpolitics - I only refer to the person of Jesus nicknamed the Christ himself. That is the one and only Christ that served as a name-giver for the term: "Christianity" (we do not call it "Biblianism" or "Churchianism" for no reason, don'T we). "

But even if you had a point there and all that would havbe been ordered and demanded by Christ - is it still being done that way? When happened the last case of inquisition in Spain, and when the last stoning in Iran? Did you know that the Bible actually is split into two volumes, for some very mysterious reason, and that in the second volume the four gospels again are somewhat separated and stand apart from the rest of the glad tidings?

You could have a Christian religion without church, without Paul and without Moses, but with only Jesus and the four gosples written. But you could not have that same religion named Christianity without Jesus, but with Paul, Moses and the church. In the word "Christianity" there is embedded the word "Christ". I wonder why.

Take Muhammad out of the Koran, and what are you left with: Nothing. There is no ideology coming from and basing on nothing. No Muhammad - no Koran, no Hadith, no Sira, no Shariah, no Allah, no nothing. Thats why it is correctly called: Muhammedanism. And that is why you cannot take away Muhammad's will and teaching from Islam and then claim it nevertheless were his ideology you refer to when saying Muhammedanism, or Islam.

LINK: Vom Islam lernen heißt siegen lernen! Eine Polemik.

(...)
Es gibt erstaunliche Parallelen zwischen den Bemühungen der Gesellschaft für Deutsch-Sowjetische Freundschaft, die Zustände in der Sowjetunion ins Märchenhafte zu verklären, und der mittlerweile weitverbreiteten Übung, den Islam einzig als eine "Religion des Friedens" verstehen zu wollen. Beides funktioniert mit dem gleichen Trick.

Die Miss- und Vetternwirtschaft in der SU hatte nichts mit dem Sozialismus zu tun. Es gab keine Armut, keine Arbeitslosigkeit, keine Korruption und keine Kriminalität, von den Dissidenten und anderen "negativen Elementen" mal abgesehen. Der Sozialismus war ein Paradies auf Erden, ein Garant für individuelles und kollektives Wohlergehen.


Blöd waren nur diejenigen, die sich an dem Projekt nicht beteiligen wollten. Fakt ist: Der Sozialismus war überall dort eine tolerante Weltanschauung, die mit anderen Weltanschauungen friedlich koexistierte, wo er nicht an der Macht war. Allerdings war es überall dort, wo er das Sagen hatte, mit der Friedlichkeit und der Toleranz schnell vorbei.


So ähnlich verhält es sich auch mit dem Islam. Al-Qaida, Boko Haram, der Islamische Staat und die Taliban haben mit dem Islam nichts zu tun. Das Regime der Ajatollahs hat mit dem Islam nichts zu tun. Die blutigen Kämpfe zwischen Schiiten und Sunniten haben mit dem Islam nichts zu tun. Wenn in Saudi-Arabien Gotteslästerer ausgepeitscht und Ehebrecherinnen gesteinigt werden, hat das mit dem Islam nichts zu tun.


Die Attentäter von "9/11" hatten mit dem Islam nichts zu tun. Auch das, was in London, Madrid, Mumbai, Bali, Boston, Sydney, Brüssel und Toulouse geschah, hatte mit dem Islam nichts zu tun. Denn Islam meint "Frieden", und Dschihad, so hören wir es immer wieder, bedeutet nicht "Heiliger Krieg", sondern "innere Anstrengung", wozu auch immer. In jeder Religion gibt es Fanatiker, aber in keiner anderen wird dermaßen hartnäckig darauf bestanden, dass sie nichts mit der Religion zu tun haben, auf die sie sich berufen.
(...)

LINK: Translate-Button

[MH]

Originally Posted by Skybird

"Overblown".

In the light of the numbers, such comments speak for themselves, no further comment needed.



Again, this, from a Turkish author:

"The magic formula "This has nothing to do with Islam" does not work anymore: A call for more honesty, thoughtfulness and self-criticism among Muslims" - Hit the translate button:
https://translate.google.de/translat...ehr&edit-text=

German original:
http://www.achgut.com/dadgdx/index.p...eht_nicht_mehr



And as Hirsi-Ali had put it: "We can no longer pretend that it is possible to divorce actions from the ideals that inspire them." - Thats what I am saying all the time - its the ideology, man.

Nazi not Nazi blah blah lets leave it out....
If you take what Hitler said about communism then most western leaders during cold war had been nazzis , including the ones that wore hats and grew mustache.
Bottom line Sky....what do you want?
We all know there is a problem , Oberon too....he simply thinks everyone is out to nuke them all.
Now ... what do you want to be done about the issue?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It all depends on mindset, Oberon.

If you want to hammer down on Muslims, then "appeasement" is defined as "anything that happens in the years preceding an act of terrorism".

Easy peasy.

Acts of terror happen daily...genocide almost yearly.

Appeasement is when the media and govts say free speech should be toned down as not to offend, basically Muslims, because they kill you for it. Appeasement is when you allow the incubators to thrive and grow, knowing these people will bring terrorist events into the world.

Ignore the Jews that are leaving France because of fear, double the number from last year.....no biggy...

We saw what appeasement got America when we ignored OBL and Al Qaeda as we ignored their murderous acts of terror on our people, soldiers and civilians around the world....It was nothing major,....we didn't want to over blow it....then we paid the price, a price my uncle was killed in and never to be found again...but what's a uncle....

We have numerous groups that have declared war on the free world...Ignore it like you ignored Hitler....No, no major army will cross the border.....one is not needed....

Enjoy the large march of unity, it is a good thing, but it's not gonna change much if the underlying issues aren't addressed....

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by MH

Nazi not Nazi blah blah lets leave it out....
If you take what Hitler said about communism then most western leaders during cold war had been nazzis , including the ones that wore hats and grew mustache.
Bottom line Sky....what do you want?
We all know there is a problem , Oberon too....he simply thinks everyone is out to nuke them all.
Now ... what do you want to be done about the issue?

He's already said, he wants all Muslims out of Germany, by whatever means necessary.
He's already said that if people were to attack Mosques and Muslims then he's ok with that.

Sounds...oh so familiar, doesn't it?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Appeasement is when the media and govts say free speech should be toned down as not to offend, basically Muslims, because they kill you for it. Appeasement is when you allow the incubators to thrive and grow, knowing these people will bring terrorist events into the world.

Which governments? When?

[CCIP]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/wo...773522000&_r=0

More on them evil Muslims. Pretty sure we now have victims and good samaritans outnumbering the terrorists in this scenario, but don't let that convince you that they're, you know, not evil and stuff.

As for "appeasement", I find the use of that term in this context, along with other parallels to Nazism, particularly insidious. The only appeasement that I can see happening is if we fall to the whiners who want us to give up fundamental human and civil rights in order to appease their own insecurities and need for an enemy. The only accurate parallel to Nazism is where we're seeing a rather extreme right-wing perspective (and it's verifiably extreme if you look at any actual origins of its support) being pushed on the back of that dehumanized enemy. So yeah, I'm against appeasement - I'm against appeasing the chickenhawk agenda.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by CCIP

The only appeasement that I can see happening is if we fall to the whiners who want us to give up fundamental human and civil rights in order to appease their own insecurities and need for an enemy.

Sums it up nicely