Afghanistan deadline

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Did I remember it wrongfully !? I seem to recall that USA would assist the Afghan by bombing the enemy(Taliban)

If I'm correct, then my question is...has there been any bombings of Taliban groundforces ?

Markus

The military was there to help against the Taliban and be a part of establishing a government, military and economy.

[Otto Harkaman]

I am not saying Biden doesn't own this total catastrophe.

I just don't see why Cheney and Rumsfeld, who were deeply involved in the Vietnam war, didn't figure out they were going to create the same debacle when they invaded Afghanistan.


Mr. Rumsfeld in 1975, when he was the White House chief of staff for President Gerald R. Ford. His deputy was Mr. Cheney, left

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

How do you really know the war on terrorism has accomplished nothing? Do you really know what plans or people that have been stopped perpetrating mass killings, bombing and the like? If we don't really know then we can not state emphatically the war on terrorism was for nothing.

It was more than just a war on terrorism. The idea was to help Afghanistan establish their own government, military and economy. It is yet another failure as we have seen in Vietnam.

Certainly more hate the USA but we continue to send $$$ overseas like candy. Personally I think the USA should stop continually policing the world.

Because 'not knowing' is a great answer?

Neither Vietnam nor Afghanistan were 'altruistic' wars. If you believe that, you bought into a simplistic form of propaganda (which involved a morphing 'mission statement', btw). If the U.S. would have focused on global aid in the form of food, technological advancement and disaster assistance without the 'bomb-a-matic' tactic the national treasury would be better off as well as the rest of the world and hate of the U.S. would have been reduced dramatically.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

I am not saying Biden doesn't own this total catastrophe. I just don't see why Cheney and Rumsfeld, who were deeply involved in the Vietnam war, didn't figure out they were going to create the same debacle when they invaded Afghanistan.

Because in their mind it was a success. Much like Biden and Pelose paint this mess as a success. This is how politicians work.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The military was there to help against the Taliban and be a part of establishing a government, military and economy.

Thats a half-truth, Warhawk. In the beginning it was only Enduring Freedom, and this operation was about enforcing the handing over of Osmama Bin Laden who enjoyed refuge by Mullah Omar and the Taleban. Bush demanded his handing over in his speech ten days after 9/11. The Taleban rejected that demand, and so the US started to strike them with assistance by the Northern Alliance. And that was the totality of goals of Enduring Freedom - not more.

So far, so good - I follow.

The things you list came later, in a later change of operational goals. And these changes are where the stupidity began. The political expectations were unrealistic and drawn by unknowing dillettantees who knew sh!t about Afghanistan (and Iraq, for that matter). Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz being the driving planning minds behind pushing America deeper and deeper into a black quagmire where it did not see, did not want to see, and did not want to learn why it should want to be able to see.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The military was there to help against the Taliban and be a part of establishing a government, military and economy.

I was talking about supporting the Afghan forces during American withdraw from Afghanistan. Not the US present during these 20 years.

Secondly

Saw something terrible on the news a few second ago. In this video clip you could see something falls from a Herkules airplane after its lift off. They host said it was a human.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Because 'not knowing' is a great answer?

Neither Vietnam nor Afghanistan were 'altruistic' wars. If you believe that, you bought into a simplistic form of propaganda (which involved a morphing 'mission statement', btw). If the U.S. would have focused on global aid in the form of food, technological advancement and disaster assistance without the 'bomb-a-matic' tactic the national treasury would be better off as well as the rest of the world and hate of the U.S. would have been reduced dramatically.

The Vietman war and Afghanistan are two very different times yet looking for the same outcome. There was no terrorist acts against the US in the 60's that precipitated a war. The war in Afghanistan there was and still threats present. It elicited a different response.

Concerning the bombings in Afghanistan, the terrorist knows one thing and one thing only. Weapons of war. Terror with bombs and chemicals. Arrive to the region with a tray of corn growing, some building materials and technological advancement was not the first call to action. You also assume that food, technological advancement and the like was not taken there. USAID spends plenty on these items all over the world. Even down to a skid of tooth bushes and paste.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I was talking about supporting the Afghan forces during American withdraw from Afghanistan. Not the US present during these 20 years.

Secondly

Saw something terrible on the news a few second ago. In this video clip you could see something falls from a Herkules airplane after its lift off. They host said it was a human.

Markus

Gotcha. The questions remains....where the heck is the Afghan forces?

Yes, reports of people clinging to planes has been reported.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Gotcha. The questions remains....where the heck is the Afghan forces?

Yes, reports of people clinging to planes has been reported.

Found an English article about this falling to the death

Kabul Airport horror sees Afghans fall to their death after clinging to plane to escape

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...plane-video-VN

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Gotcha. The questions remains....where the heck is the Afghan forces?

Where there is no grown identifying with a state, their is no loyalty to that state.

Thats why the trainign fo the Afghan government army probably was in vein froim beginning on. It does not identify with soemthign oike an Afgahn state and its giovernment. its just a job, and you do not want to loose your life just for a miserable wage.



Meanwhile, Germany. FOCUS writes:


While Kabul is being retaken, parts of the federal government are apparently busy with other tasks. Federal Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer is at home in the Saarland to bake tarte flambée, while Ursula von der Leyen takes care of her horses. The President of the European Commission posted several photos on Instagram on Saturday in which she can be seen with horses. "I wish everyone a moment to take a deep breath and recharge," writes von der Leyen.

But not only Kramp-Karrenbauer and von der Leyern are busy elsewhere during Kabul's case with election campaign tour and horses: The most important military advisors of the Bundeswehr are also on vacation.

As "Business-Insider" reports, General Inspector (of the Bundeswehr) Eberhard Zorn and his office manager are only returning from their vacation this week. Instead of the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defense forming a situation center, nothing has happened since Friday.


German crisis management:






The European league of superbarbies. Whats next? Cookie offensive for Kabul? Singing against Taleban?

[mapuc]

Here in Denmark the Danish Prime minister has summoned various ministers for a meeting of the Foreign Board. These ministers were on holiday. This is due to the situation in Afghanistan.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Found an English article about this falling to the death



https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...plane-video-VN

Markus

It is a dire situation for many. Specifically for women and your girls.

[Skybird]

Germany babbles about an air bridge to fly out 10,000 persons.

For this heroic task, the Luftwaffe got engaged. It sent - 1 Airbus A400M. One. After days, finally a single lonely plane. Well, better one than none. But aren't bridges meant to consist of at least two ends?

Which is not equipped with the missile defence system that was designed and planned for the A400M.


Just days ago the US offered Germany flights and assistance to get people out. The Germans - refused the offer. They had everything under control.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

You also assume that food, technological advancement and the like was not taken there. USAID spends plenty on these items all over the world. Even down to a skid of tooth bushes and paste.

What made you think that? I'm very well aware of U.S. aid programs ... and the actions that totally undermine them.

[mapuc]

Guess I'm not the only one thinking how could the well trained and well equip army just give up so quickly to some not so well trained and equip.

Then I came to think of what Skybird wrote

"Where there is no grown identifying with a state, their is no loyalty to that state.

They are more loyal to their clan or family.

Markus