2016 US Presidential election thread

[Reece]

OMG!!! That's terrible!!

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Manafort resigns, well that was expected and one less thing for Trump to worry about.

Trump is on a reset, says he's sorry (humble factor), reads from a teleprompter (on message).

Can he turn it around?

This week's poll have Clinton 2-4 points ahead which is in the margin of error.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

In August 1988, Dukakis was beating Bush by 7 points.

yes, we are back to a horse race.

Not really:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...tion-forecast/

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by GT182

Did you know that Hilary stole all the White House silverware when she and Bill left. I've heard they took other things too, tho I've no idea what. But the silverware, and other stuff belong to us... the people of the United States, it's not theirs for the taking. That alone should put her in jail. They stole from us.

You got a nonwingnut source on that?

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I don't think most Americans will particularly care how the US under Trump is seen by the rest of the world, while the rest of the world is dreading what a US under Trump might do...well...except Putin perhaps.


Meanwhile on the Trump bus, another one bites the dust:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37134440

Well, I would these people to have a look around and check where their goods are produced. Chances are that a great deal are. If Trump manages to piss of Europe and Asia, those goods may not so accessible anymore. Now this may mean they will have to be produced in the US at a higher price for the consumers.

So I think it does matter how Trump is viewed.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by McBeck

Well, I would these people to have a look around and check where their goods are produced. Chances are that a great deal are. If Trump manages to piss of Europe and Asia, those goods may not so accessible anymore. Now this may mean they will have to be produced in the US at a higher price for the consumers.

So I think it does matter how Trump is viewed.

Don't underestimate the growing isolationist movement in the US, I think for many Americans, particularly those who are not on the bread-line, the rise in costs for products would be an acceptable price to pay for the increased security versus potential foreign trade adversaries.
The US does this from time to time, it goes inward, spends a decade or so trying very hard to ignore the rest of the world and then something happens which drags it back into the globe kicking and screaming, usually a major war.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GT182

Did you know that Hilary stole all the White House silverware when she and Bill left. I've heard they took other things too, tho I've no idea what. But the silverware, and other stuff belong to us... the people of the United States, it's not theirs for the taking. That alone should put her in jail. They stole from us.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...nton-stealing/

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the...urniture-flap/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinto...use-furniture/

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/06/us...ouse.html?_r=0



All you had to do is enter "Clintons stole from white house" into The Googles, and you would have gotten pages and pages of returns debunking this old claim.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Platapus

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...nton-stealing/

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the...urniture-flap/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinto...use-furniture/

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/06/us...ouse.html?_r=0



All you had to do is enter "Clintons stole from white house" into The Googles, and you would have gotten pages and pages of returns debunking this old claim.

But where would be the fun in that?

Don't go and start bringing troublesome things like facts and reasoning into this election now.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Platapus

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...nton-stealing/

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the...urniture-flap/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinto...use-furniture/

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/06/us...ouse.html?_r=0


All you had to do is enter "Clintons stole from white house" into The Googles, and you would have gotten pages and pages of returns debunking this old claim.

I think it's cute he ignores things like Trump's bankruptcies and focuses on this. Priorities.

Of course, everyone is partisan.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Don't underestimate the growing isolationist movement in the US, I think for many Americans, particularly those who are not on the bread-line, the rise in costs for products would be an acceptable price to pay for the increased security versus potential foreign trade adversaries.
The US does this from time to time, it goes inward, spends a decade or so trying very hard to ignore the rest of the world and then something happens which drags it back into the globe kicking and screaming, usually a major war.

The U.S. has remained pretty involved in world affairs since the forties.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

The U.S. has remained pretty involved in world affairs since the forties.

Indeed, but the isolationist movement has grown stronger over the years, I would not be surprised to see it come to fruitition within the next fifty years. Especially if the country runs into any particular major financial problems.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

All you had to do is enter "Clintons stole from white house" into The Googles, and you would have gotten pages and pages of returns debunking this old claim.

Yet even the left leaning snopes had to admit there was a grain of truth to it.

The rules governing the acceptance of gifts by the president and other federal employees divide such items into two categories: those received from foreign officials or governments (foreign official gifts), and those received from the American public (domestic gifts). The president is allowed to keep foreign official gifts if their worth is under a certain threshold; gifts whose worth is over the threshold belong to the people of the United States and must be purchased at fair market price from the General Services Administration. No such limitation applies to domestic gifts, although the law requires disclosure of each individual gift valued at more than a minimal amount ($260 as of the end of Clinton's term of office). The law also states that federal employees, including the president and first lady, may not solicit gifts.
As was pointed out at the time, the rules for U.S. senators are different. Senators may not accept gifts valued at more than $50, and may not accept multiple gifts from individual donors totaling more than $100. Hillary Clinton took office as New York senator on 3 January 2001, but because the gifts in question were reported as received while she was still first lady, the rule wasn't applied. At least one critic, Charles Lewis of the Center for Public Integrity, said that even so, the timing gave the appearance Sen. Clinton was "enriching herself from public service."
There was nothing illegal about the Clintons keeping personal gifts that had been given to them in the White House, but the $190,027 total price tag of their final year's haul elicited criticism, which the former first couple sought to stem by announcing they would voluntarily pay for a portion of those gifts, an amount totaling $86,000.
Days later, the New York Times reported that the Clintons would return an additional $28,000 or more worth of gifts that donors complained had been earmarked for the White House permanent collection, not the Clintons' personal use. Ultimately, the total worth of gifts returned by the Clintons to the U.S. government amounted to nearly $50,000, the Times later reported.

So GT wasn't wrong, they did try to steal some stuff but notice how the entire subject is automatically defined by the most outlandish fringe claim possible so it can be "debunked". What a great way to defect and marginalize criticism if one has the support of the media.

The truth is that they accepted almost 200 grand of gifts in just one of the 8 years they were in office which is a pretty damn big tip by any public servant. After they received public criticism about it they reluctantly said they would return less than half of it. Then later even after donors confirm that at least a portion was indeed stolen (erhm I mean "mistakenly taken") they only really returned a quarter of it.

I swear if Hillary bapped somebody over the head with a baseball bat in some weed filled vacant lot out on the DC city line the claim that would be "debunked" on snopes and in the rest of the dem media would be that she used the Washington Monument to cleave the skulls of 100 people on the steps of the Lincoln memorial. Instead of what may or may not have actually happened we'd just get "Snopes checked the Park Service cleaning and maintenance records of the National Mall and found that there was no blood or brains cleaned off either the Lincoln memorial steps or the Washington Monument therefore we rate this claim as mostly false".

So no they didn't "steal" almost 200 thousand dollars. That was just the huge amount of bribes in material goods that they took which they we're eventually shamed into returning a small portion in order to take the heat off them for being the criminals they are. That's the bottom line here.

Maybe next time if she gets elected when they leave office they'll make sure their loot is "donated" to the Clinton Foundation and avoid the mess and irritating public records disclosures. After all we don't want to put any extra obstacles in the way of an eventual Chelsea Presidential Trifecta now would we?

[Mr Quatro]

August has uncovered more than just some plates with the Presidential seal on them being taken, but where did the rumor come from in the first place?

Did the plates get stolen by someone other than the Clintons and then returned by someone other than the Clintons?

Speaking of the Clintons did anyone see him leave on Airforce One after Bush took over that day? I did and it was one sorry scene of crying and sobbing and made me wonder why I ever did defend him for the Monica thing.

Trump still has an ace up his sleeve with old Bill selling the rights to American uranium assets:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us...pany.html?_r=0

Uranium One has the mining rights to Mr. Christensen's property. ... Members of that group built, financed and eventually sold off to the Russians ... donated $31.3 million to the foundation run by former President Bill Clinton, left. ... in assets even as his wife helped steer American foreign policy as secretary ...

If the voters can't see the truth in the Clintons non-profit foundation being used for profit what can they see?

[vienna]

Cover of the most current New Yorker Magazine...

...and look!, they even got the size of the hands right!...




<O>

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Don't underestimate the growing isolationist movement in the US, I think for many Americans, particularly those who are not on the bread-line, the rise in costs for products would be an acceptable price to pay for the increased security versus potential foreign trade adversaries.
The US does this from time to time, it goes inward, spends a decade or so trying very hard to ignore the rest of the world and then something happens which drags it back into the globe kicking and screaming, usually a major war.

If these people think they will get more security out of isolation they will be mistaken. It will cut down on some, but it's like what I was told when looking for a lock for my new bike ... "If they really want it, they will find a way to get it..."

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by McBeck

If these people think they will get more security out of isolation they will be mistaken. It will cut down on some, but it's like what I was told when looking for a lock for my new bike ... "If they really want it, they will find a way to get it..."

I'm fairly certain this same logic applies to a 1,989 mile international border wall that no other nation will ever pay for. At least the bike lock is cheaper.

But as Churchill said, you can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've indulged in every other fantasy.