Grey Wolves Errata Report Thread.

[Captain Wreckless]

Also, in line with realistic modelling aims GW has reduced the
damage potential of the deck guns which is explained below.

Armor piercing rounds have been removed from the GW mod as our
research indicates that typically the only type of round
carried by the U-boats was "HE" or "High-Explosive."

Furthermore, the crew when ordered to the deck gun takes time
to load the first shell... instead of the instant BANG you got
in stock SH3.

A little compromise we made too was including 20 starshell
lumination rounds per boat and extended the range of the
starshell closer to the range of a standard HE round. In real
life you can shoot one just as far as the other... I've done
it.

With all of the discussion about AP rounds in Uboats, here's something I found at Uboataces.com under deck gun attacks:

Although intended primarily as a defensive weapon, the deck gun however could be used against stragglers and unescorted merchants, and some ships, particularly tankers could be sunk at leisure, even in daylight. It was also useful in conserving the limited torpedo supply and to finish off the kill of a ship crippled by a torpedo.

A small watertight locker stowed near the gun held a few more rounds ready for use, providing an advantage during the first few vital seconds of engagements. This also meant that crash dives took longer than usual, as the gun had to be secured and crew rushed below deck. There were no range finders, so engagements had to be done at close range. With an experienced crew, the rate of fire was between 15 to 18 rounds per minute. Three types of ammunition could be fired; armor piercing, high explosive and star burst (flare).

An attack could be aimed at the target’s bridge, waterline or weapon systems. Attacking the bridge will hinder the victim’s steering ability, while attacking at the hull’s waterline would quickly sink the ship. Attacking the weapon’s systems will hinder the victim’s ability to fire back, but it takes just one unlucky shell to penetrate the U-boat’s hull which will make diving impossible. Armor piercing shells are better suited to hull attacks, while high explosive could be used against other targets.


U-boat Deck Gun Specification
88mm
Used In Type VII
Caliber 88mm (3.46in)
Traverse 360 degrees
Elevation -4 to +30 degrees
Breech Semi Automatic
Ammunition
High Explosive
Weight 13.7kg
Muzzle Velocity 700m/s
Range 12,350m
Armor Piercing
Weight 13.9kg
Star Shell
Weight 11.2kg

105mm
Used In Type IA, IX XB
Caliber 105mm (4.13in)
Traverse 360 degrees
Elevation -3 to +30 degrees
Breech Semi Automatic
Ammunition
High Explosive
Weight 23.3kg
Muzzle Velocity 785m/s
Range 15,350m
Armor Piercing
Weight 23.3kg
Star Shell
Weight 14.7kg


So it looks like they had all three types of ammo. I don't know alot about uboataces.com 'cuz I just found it, but it looks like a in-depth site.

CW

If it's at a website, it's suspect, especially if they don't cite a source.

Naval Weapons of World War Two, by NJM Campbell, lists every gun used by any nation during the war, including mounting types and ammo. While he doesn't specifically rule out AP and SS rounds for U-boats, he does say in his listings for the 8.8cm and 10.5cm guns "including Armour Piercing and Star Shell for minesweepers and patrol craft".

I'll trust the most respected expert in the field over any website.

[Captain Wreckless]

Here's an interesting tidbit I found on deck gun attacks by U-35 during WWI. Commander Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière commanding.

U-35

U-23-class submarine. L/B/D: 212.2 × 20.7 × 11.5 (25.3 high) (64.7m × 6.3m × 3.5m/7.7m). Tons: 685/878 disp. Hull: steel. Comp.: 35. Arm.: 4 × 20TT; 1 × 8.8cm. Mach.: diesels/batteries, 2,000/1,200 ehp, 2 screws; 16.4/9.7 kts. Built: Friedrich Krupp AG Germaniawerft, Kiel, Germany; 1914.

On July 26, U-35 sailed from Cattaro and over the next 25 days sank 54 ships—more than any other submarine commander of any country in either of the two world wars—with an aggregate tonnage of more than 90,150 tons. The vast majority of these sinkings were in surface attacks, and in the course of the cruise, von Arnauld used only four torpedoes.

Gray, U-Boat War. Halpern, Naval War in the Mediterranean

CW

P.S. Extra tidbit: During his war time career, he fired only four torpedoes (one miss) and sank his victims (194 ships totalling 454,000 tons) always strictly according to prize rules with his boat's 88 mm deck gun. Sea Classics May '04

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

If it's at a website, it's suspect, especially if they don't cite a source.

I'll trust the most respected expert in the field over any website.

It's possible that with no sources cited the info could be suspect, but I found some of the same info at both uboat.net and uboataces.com. I suspect more than a few folks on this forum and others go to uboat.net regularly for their information.

I fired off an email to the web owner of uboataces.com for the sources he used in the article.

CW

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Uboat.net has been my primary "source" website. However, without going into detail, even Uboat.net has long before today been shown to contain periodic mistakes.

Many other sites have information that conflicts with other sites and you can consider each of them "fairly reliable" sources and I am certain that each webmaster has the best of intentions....

NOW... if you want to impress me with data... quote from Clay Blair's works as I consider him to be one of the top two U-boat research gods... the other being Horst Bredow of the Uboat Archiv.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that I have not carefully considered the deck gun issue. There have been miles of strenous discussion regarding the same before many of you came here.

I have read all of your complaints and sources regarding the DG and have taken them under advisement.

You have all made your points.

There will be some changes to the deck gun in our upcoming update. (hopefully in 2-3 weeks) However, the deck gun was a secondary weapon in real life and it will remain officially so in GW.

If you must, then you can consider it to be an arbitrary decision by me.

An interesting tidbit for you... in stock SH3... Uboat AP rounds did less damage than HE rounds according to the numbers I have seen while modding that file. Furthermore, I have yet to see any reference to "armor penetration" in the SH3 files while modding weapon profiles.
Simply nerfing the HP damage potential upwards for the AP round... DOES NOT reflect the intended nature or characteristics of an AP round. Therefore it makes the concept of an AP round in SH3 rather useless...

... so we dropped it in-line with source data that either conflicted and/or did not include a stated ammo load-out for different boats.
NOWHERE have I seen a listing of how many AP rounds were carried by each boat.

Uboat.net (with a little digging) gives a "total number of rounds carried" listing for each boat, and this is what we went by.

Even further in stock SH3... The first round would be fired from the deck gun instantly as if it had been loaded all along. Another benefit of dropping the AP round type causes the SH3 Uboat crew to load the next available round type (HE) and restored the load-time for the first round in the process.

So you see, there is a reason for everything... even the things I have not discussed here... which I will cover when the changes are made for the update.

This is the GW Eratta Report thread... not a deck gun discussion thread.

If you aren't happy with it feel free to mod it for your game however you wish to. Only you can make you happy in the end.

Cannot agree more.

Great post.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by wolfast

...Is anyone else not getting a score for sinking small merchant? I sank 3 last patrol(saw them go down) And didnt get credit? Im running SH Commander and GW..... help!!! thanks

Did you upgrade equipment before or after your first patrol?

[Captain Wreckless]

Has anyone else had any graphics corruption problems? I had the TDC screen go completely unreadable. All of the dials fragmented and were spread all over the screen. I couldn't use any of them.

I tried restarting the game, but nothing changed. Maybe a corrupted D/L?

CW

[thyro]

Its just my game or everyone would get the same?

Everytime that I save the game near Valletta(Malta Island)... then I try to load the save-game, it loads (almost) after the "Not so long ago..." follows a CTD.

Could someone try this please? Thanks

[Firebird]

You're sure you didn't overwrite another save?

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Firebird

You're sure you didn't overwrite another save?

I'm sure...

I even tried going elsewhere (far from the Island) and the save (made far from) could be loaded.

But then I went back, got closer to the Island and again CTD after loading new savegame made near the Island.

Pls could someone try it? Thanks

[vodkajello]

I'm not sure if this is a stock SH3 bug or a GW error, but I've only seen it while playing GW.

My WO keeps giving inaccurate weather reports. It's been pouring rain for 5 days straight with heavy fog and 15k winds. Every time I ask he claims that there is no precipitation. Very strange. It might warrant some checking. Maybe the text for the rain got overwritten with a 'no rain' string? I can't see why GW would change the weather report text though....

[vodkajello]

Originally Posted by thyro

I'm sure...

I even tried going elsewhere (far from the Island) and the save (made far from) could be loaded.

But then I went back, got closer to the Island and again CTD after loading new savegame made near the Island.

Pls could someone try it? Thanks

Doesn't this happen when the port is not at the correct co-ordinates to match the info with the HT mod? (or something like this...) There was a thread on this a little while ago. The player had to go into the file with the harbour date and make sure the location was correct then everything smartened up. Sorry, that's not the most helpful. But hopefully a GW dev will check out the location of any places in malta and make sure they are ok.

[VonHelsching]

Ahem, by pure chance in another thread about the detailed spec of each u-boat, Kptn. Lehmann mentioned that in GW Typ IIA and IID have one additional torpedo.

I just checked it and I have 5, like the stock game.
I also checked renown and medals.cfg of SH3Commander, where a possible section of basic.cfg would lurk from my previous installation; It didn't.

I want my extra torpedo.

Also checked my basic.cfg (in my GW installation). Typ IIA and IID indeed have 3 loaded and 3 internal reserves.

They just not appear when I play.

Any ideas?

[Dutch]

Pretty sure the torps are hardcoded, not sure if any mod can change that......which is indeed to bad for Type II commanders.

My only question is about the weather, has anyone else noticed increased bad weather? Still in 39 but during these last few patrols I have had nothing but gale force winds, hasn't really hindered my tonnage just would like to see how the new deck gun ordinace works.