Malaysian Airlines MH317

[CptSimFreak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It probably is more appropriate to post it here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...et-attack.html






_

Original source is from a russian news channel claiming that it was from foreign satellite... absolute silliness and horrible knowledge about military aviation. They claimed first missile was into cockpit followed by gun runs and finally by IR missile.

[Catfish]

^ Did you happen to overread this :

"Evidence Is Now Conclusive: 2 Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Did Shoot Down that Malaysian Airliner. No ‘Buk’ Missile Ground-Shot."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-...n-mh17/5394111

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/03...enario-shifts/

http://my.firedoglake.com/ohiogringo...-flight-mh-17/

B.t.w. this was analyzed by US intelligence, not even russian.

I just wonder why the russians (being officially off the hook so to speak), now present evidence, that it WAS shot down by ground launchers. Why ? More deception ? Or do they just say it, because they have to negate anything the US say ?

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

B.t.w. this was analyzed by US intelligence

If you actually believe that I have a bridge in New York you might be interested in buying.

[ikalugin]

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I thought you were younger.

So, what is he saying

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Betonov

I thought you were younger.

So, what is he saying

I am not on the video.

The man (in the online interview with Sharij) claims that the commonly known -312- (so numbered) Buk-M1 TELAR, which allegedly shot down the Malasian airliner (also SBU - the Ukrainian security agency, claims that it was in the Separatist's hands at the time) was in fact in Loyalist's hands at the moment and was not operational (doe to a break down) and that he himself served on it.

[Skybird]

Take that with a grain of salt.

If he really served on that one system at that time, then either the man in the vidoe is a separatist, then his statement that the system was in hands of loyalists and/or was not operational, is not surprising. Or if he is a loyalist - why should he then point fingers at his own camp and let the separatists off the hook?

As I said back then: then the system was moved away soon after the crash, also tells nothing. Even if the owner of that system at that time indeed had not done the shot, he would have gotten out of Dodge due to the storm that meanwhile had formed up in condemnation, he would have rioghtly assumed that since he owns a BUK, he would be accused.

The whole story remains to be completely unclear, and only theories have been formed - all of them unproven.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Take that with a grain of salt.

Either the man in the vidoe is a separatist, then his statement that the system was in hands of loyalists and/or dysfunctional, is not surprising. Or if he is a loyalist - why should he then point fingers at his own camp and let the separatists off the hook?

He is a deserter thus indeed he may have a degree of bias.

In the interview he does not ascertain blame directly (he merely speculates in the end that it was possible that Ukrainian loyalists shot it down), but rather states that during the time period the specific TELAR (the 312) was not in Separatist's hands and was not operational due to a break down.

The reason why this is at all interesting is because SBU has stated that the TELAR was in the Separatist's hands and this is the only TELAR that is said to be in the Separatist's hands at the time (of the shooting). Thus if this was not case (as this man says) then there are no known TELARs in the Separatist's hands at that time, which implies that (most likely) the airliner was not shot down by them.

Nothing conclusive ofcourse, just interesting information worth investigating.

[Skybird]

Russia claism to have a new witness confirming that the plane was shot down by an Ukrainian SU-25 by mistake. The witness identifies the name of the pilot and his words after landing, claims the Russian report: "Wrong plane" And "it was in the wrong place at the wrong time".

Russian source, I know I know, and Russia Today is not one of the most unsuspicious there is... And still...

http://rt.com/news/216871-ukraine-military-mh17-report/

On a sidenote, a French author reiterates a theory that the Malaysian plane that went missing in the Indian ocean, had been hijacked, changed course at direction to Diega Garcia and was shot down by American forces when it started to violate defence parameters or the risk for a terror strike against DG was considered to be too high.

---

If both events would be proven to have happened like described above, the Kremlin's propaganda department will have three days of celebrations.

[Catfish]

The german airline captain who saw the wrecked parts, insisted that the jet was shot down with MG fire.
The parts have been shown in the newspaper and on the 'net, and look conclusive.
The black box has been stowed away, and the contents is, according to Frau Merkel, "top secret".

I take it they would luckily publish it and grant free access, had it been Russia.

[CCIP]

So, Russian newspaper "Novaya Gazeta" [known for their opposition-minded, anti-Putin stance] have leaked a document today which they allege is a Russian military investigation of the damage sustained by the aircraft.

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/68332.html (in Russian)

There are two key findings - firstly that the damage was definitely caused by a "Buk-M1" missile (which creates a very specific damage pattern); secondly that the pattern of fragmentation damage suggests that the missile would have had to arrive at a specific angle, from the right and slightly forward and above the aircraft's flight path, and therefore would have been launched from an area further south of the aircraft than some of the previous alleged launch locations. It does not however make any conclusions about who launched it, although it raises many important questions. It does, however, pretty definitively rule out any other weapons that could have been involved, or most of any other launch areas except a relatively small box to the south.

[August]

So I guess the anti-American theories of Skybird and Catfish remain just wishful thinking.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by August

So I guess the anti-American theories of Skybird and Catfish remain just wishful thinking.

Well, with Skybird they always seemed more anti-Ukrainian theories to me. He seemed to have a pretty strong bias against the current regime in Kiev.

But, as CCIP notes the Russian military don't make any conclusions about who launched it. But, hopefully it will put to rest rumours of Ukrainian SU-25s operating at near orbital altitudes. The SU-25 narrative was a fractured and contradictory mess that featured mystery witnesses, dubious theories, dodgy experts, and fake evidence, not mention the plane's ordinance being used in such a way that it always resembled a strike by a Buk missile rather than an attack by a SU-25. It would be good to see it finally set aside.

[August]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

It would be good to see it finally set aside.

That is my wish as well but I fear that the the truth has been obfuscated to the point that I doubt any of it will ever be settled.

[Oberon]

Ah yes, the Su-25 space shuttle...glad to see that one has been given the boot.