The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread - Page 17

henriksultan · 01-27-10, 01:26 AM

Just read this at some random blog and jumped right here and found this thread, I just hope this isn't part of SH5 coz I really want this game.

Cloud saving is a great thing IF you can choose it, not being forced that is just a retard move. Internet trouble and no go, internet trouble while playing no saving? There is so many what if scenarios that this should not be implemented.

Truly I understand your fears of piracy but I can't understand why you keep kicking on the players that actually buy the game because they love it. Please stop it UBI. This might be a buy breaker for me... If you force me to be online and send data to you... I wont buy your games.

And will this **** up modding?

maurader · 01-27-10, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

Mr Neal Stevens, it doesn't matter if the pc is or isn't connected to the internet 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Its a matter of principle. The moment a third party dicates what you can and cannot do to the game you have PURCHASED well you haven't purchased anything but a promise that they will let you use it. God know for how much time, and if they decide to cut you off you're f **** d.
Let me ask you, would you find acceptable to ask a third party for authorization everytime you would like to read a book in your personal library ?
I bet you wouldn't. See its the same issue. Giving up what you legally PURCHASED.

Funny you should bring up the example about reading a book.
For all those people who dont think it could happen, just look at this article:

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/08...rovider-g.html

In this case, the book publisher wasnt even the one who went belly up. The DRM provider just went away and left the customers out in the cold. The book publisher didnt even have the encryption keys to give their customers what they paid for. So even if the publisher promised to fix the issue, they couldnt do anything about it.

I am very disappointed because I have supported Silent Hunter (as well as many other simulations) since the DOS days. In fact I still play some of those old games (i.e. Nascar Racing 2003 was just played today) and some of those companies are no longer around. I really wanted to get Silent Hunter 5 and the new Ghost Recon but I guess that is no more Ubisoft games for me. I even put up with Starforce because at least I could play it whenever I wanted.

karamazovnew · 01-27-10, 01:54 AM

We'll eventually all have free internet on our fingernails, through subspace, or whatever... But until then, if Ubi decides to use an online DRM for SH5, I won't buy the game. The main attraction of the game, for me, is that I can play it on my 4-month long VLCC trips. We do have internet there, but not like THAT. It's more like one mail per day or 10 mins of Yahoo Messenger to talk to the miss. It would be a major blow, I really was looking forward to playing the game. Oh well, we'll see. Not long to go now.

Radioshow · 01-27-10, 02:07 AM

I belong to a clan for SWAT4 and COD4 with over 100 members, a great number of them are from Australia. Now their Inet costs twice as much or more than here in Canada and they are heavily restricted and limited in bandwidth. So what does an Aussie do when they are halfway through the month and are capped(limited to dialup speed or worse)?
Do you not play SH5 for the rest of the month because you don't have the bandwidth. There are other considerations besides just having a connection. My router likes to get fracked and stop responding once in a while and i have to restart it. What do I do then? How do I play on my other pc's without Inet?

DRM isn't so much the problem with me. Its the fact that they are giving us less and asking for more. I have over 80 store bought dos games that were not even close to 50$ when they came out. They had many hours of gameplay, a huge printed manual, and had replayability.
Why should I pay $50 or more for a game that will last one weekend and its done. Granted sh5 is not a one weekend game but most now are 10-15 hours gameplay at best with the odd exception of Oblivion or Fallout3.

All this to prevent piracy and resales is just

Most pirates would not have bought the game anyway, dont tell me they would have bought it if they couldnt pirate it. So they really are not losing revenue just missing out on some potential revenue. The game costs $50 or more, if I want to trade or sell to a friend, well they got their money why cant resale it at EBgames or something after say a year. By then many games are hard to find in stores and I dont have a CreditCard to buy online. I got alot of old dos games used at EBgames. I pay for my games but I cant afford $50 on a game that "might" work ok or might not. I also dont have a lot of money, suppose I can no longer afford a net connection for a while?

If this was a DVD you bought ,and they get hijacked enough, would you be ok with calling everytime to watch it. Or having a limited number of viewings, on only 1 DVD player, that has to be connected to inet and if your net goes down you cant watch it? Movies cost alot more to make and I'm sure are pirated much more yet they do less to protect them.
I find a game not really any different. Its a piece of entertainment media you paid good money for to enjoy in your home at your leisure, not theirs.
If people aren't buying enough of your games UBI look to yourself!

Activation, fine. Online to check it, fine. Online while playing and online save games, not fine. I dont need them checking my PC for census info or whatever. If I'm paying good money for a game, I expect to play it when I want, where I want.

THE_MASK · 01-27-10, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radioshow

I belong to a clan for SWAT4 and COD4 with over 100 members, a great number of them are from Australia. Now their Inet costs twice as much or more than here in Canada and they are heavily restricted and limited in bandwidth. So what does an Aussie do when they are halfway through the month and are capped(limited to dialup speed or worse)?
Do you not play SH5 for the rest of the month because you don't have the bandwidth. There are other considerations besides just having a connection. My router likes to get fracked and stop responding once in a while and i have to restart it. What do I do then? How do I play on my other pc's without Inet?

DRM isn't so much the problem with me. Its the fact that they are giving us less and asking for more. I have over 80 store bought dos games that were not even close to 50$ when they came out. They had many hours of gameplay, a huge printed manual, and had replayability.
Why should I pay $50 or more for a game that will last one weekend and its done. Granted sh5 is not a one weekend game but most now are 10-15 hours gameplay at best with the odd exception of Oblivion or Fallout3.

All this to prevent piracy and resales is just

Most pirates would not have bought the game anyway, dont tell me they would have bought it if they couldnt pirate it. So they really are not losing revenue just missing out on some potential revenue. The game costs $50 or more, if I want to trade or sell to a friend, well they got their money why cant resale it at EBgames or something after say a year. By then many games are hard to find in stores and I dont have a CreditCard to buy online. I got alot of old dos games used at EBgames. I pay for my games but I cant afford $50 on a game that "might" work ok or might not. I also dont have a lot of money, suppose I can no longer afford a net connection for a while?

Activation, fine. Online to check it, fine. Online while playing and online save games, not fine. I dont need them checking my PC for census info or whatever. If I'm paying good money for a game, I expect to play it when I want, where I want.

Not only that , but there is no way on this planet i am paying $80 odd aussie dollars for a pc game that no one can say inthe future if i can play it .

John W. Hamm · 01-27-10, 02:16 AM

Came back recently to catch up with RFB and see any new developments on SHV ...I started to get a bit excited and pre-ordered...and I guess that i'm not alone in the fact that the more I read about the content of the game the less excited I became. But i was still willing to give it a chance (knowing the modding community would be there. Now tonight (I guess I missed it the last time I was here) I find this information about DRM and my once great single player game will have to stay connected to the net??? Not a chance.

I have Empire total war and when I bought it I had no idea until I got home that I still had to wait on steam to get to play it! and wait mad as hell I did! I didn't use steam on purpose and bought a hard copy...then it turned out I still needed steam! Worse I could not just download patches and save them (which i eventually leaned how to do it just took some creativity)

But the worst part about Steam came later, after the Empire Mods came out. I would get the game right where I wanted it using Mods and BAMMM! I was hit with an update (no choice in the matter at all) and not only were the mods wiped out but also all the little tweaks I had made over time. But then I learned you could keep Steam from auto updating! Well that is not so true as you would like to think. 4 times I turned off auto update and 4 times it turned itself back on (I know this didn't happen to everyone but it certainly happened to several people)

Now I am not as totally against Steam as I once was. At least not now that ETW is finished being patched and I can play it with Steam turned off. Enough about Steam, DRM makes Steam look good.

Now can you imagine SH5 and being connected all the time... middle of a Campaign ...AUTO UPDATE....Sorry but do to the content of this update you will have to start a new campaign!!! and all save games will be unplayable (no matter what you say) I guarantee this will happen!

Never before have I seen an entire community be so one sided on an issue, and to be honest this community is the heart of the SH series...lets face it sub games really are a small niche in the gaming industry. And if the core people are this mad... I for once don't see a game getting very far without it's community, I honestly do not think this game will survive on the casual gamer alone.

It is my understanding there is a Flight Sim called Rise of Flight and it uses this DRM and in the forums for ROF things were in shambles over DRM, but now people have lightened up... and it's not so bad (this is according to some other post's i had read earlier) and that poster believed that the model he presented for that games community issues with DRM would most likely play out the same for this community with SHV. And that UBI will continue to get money....etc...etc...

Well i disagree first Flight sim games in general have a much larger fan base than sub sims. Second me and several friends are avid flight simmers and also fly in RL. Currently I have Falcon 4.0 and it's two top super mods, Flight Sim X, UBI's Pacific Fighters, and Microsoft's Flight Combat ET. So you could say I fly here and there and until I read this forum today I had never heard of Rise of Flight... and neither had any of my friends... so yeah they have a fan base but apparently it could have been a lot bigger. I wonder why it wasn't?

All that being said My internet connection actually went out 1 time while I was typing this...Not to mention Cox cable does repairs at least once a week between 3 AM and 5 AM here (which is my prime time to play due to my work schedule) So given the connection issues and the fact that it is just flat wrong I am killing my Pre-order!

I have one more thing to add I have always felt like this forum was a home that i could come back to over and over...

in this forum you have always been able to see a lot of the same people here time after time and I know all new people have always been given a warm welcome! and it has been next to never that i have ever seen dissent here (save the surface boat thing but that was partly my fault and I accept my share of the blame) but in just this thread there has been a lot of dissent.

Like i said earlier most people agree that they do not want to support UBI in this endeavor, I am also one of them, and if you choose to support them that is fine you have your right to your opinion. However to say things to your fellow simmer like (and I am not quoting) Well if you can't get internet or a good signal that is just your tough luck!!????? or this reason or that reason too bad for you???? Come on guys this is one of those things that are prima-facia! whats right is right! and whats wrong is wrong!

If you support UBI in this clearly you are going against a whole bunch of your core fellow sub simmers and in this case I really feel like there is a legitimate gripe here!

jazman · 01-27-10, 02:33 AM

If the reviews of SH5 are good, most of you will come crawling back like a beaten dog.

As for me, the Pacific awaits: Silent Hunter 4, and War in the Pacific.

Highbury · 01-27-10, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John W. Hamm

It is my understanding there is a Flight Sim called Rise of Flight and it uses this DRM and in the forums for ROF things were in shambles over DRM, but now people have lightened up... and it's not so bad (this is according to some other post's i had read earlier) and that poster believed that the model he presented for that games community issues with DRM would most likely play out the same for this community with SHV. And that UBI will continue to get money....etc...etc...

Well i disagree first Flight sim games in general have a much larger fan base than sub sims. Second me and several friends are avid flight simmers and also fly in RL. Currently I have Falcon 4.0 and it's two top super mods, Flight Sim X, UBI's Pacific Fighters, and Microsoft's Flight Combat ET. So you could say I fly here and there and until I read this forum today I had never heard of Rise of Flight... and neither had any of my friends... so yeah they have a fan base but apparently it could have been a lot bigger. I wonder why it wasn't?

You might be talking about me here.. so yeah, flight sims do have a bigger fanbase. The reason you probably missed SimHQ's Sim of the Year for last year is either because you don't really follow flight sims as close as you may think, or because it was a first effort by a brand new, small company.. probably a bit of both.

My point is, if a game that was so small that it went under your radar can survive this DRM, and server hosted saves then something as big as a Ubi title in the Silent Hunter series will certainly survive it. You prove that point yourself. ROF even went one further then SHV is, they sell add on planes.

I am not saying it won't lose them some sales, I am just saying it will come nowhere near making the game a failure. The masses WILL buy it.

Letum · 01-27-10, 02:38 AM

ROF hasn't exsactly had the biggest sales for a combat flight sim...
I'm told the multpilayer is dead.

John W. Hamm · 01-27-10, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highbury

You might be talking about me here.. so yeah, flight sims do have a bigger fanbase. The reason you probably missed SimHQ's Sim of the Year for last year is either because you don't really follow flight sims as close as you may think, or because it was a first effort by a brand new, small company.. probably a bit of both.

My point is, if a game that was so small that it went under your radar can survive this DRM, and server hosted saves then something as big as a Ubi title in the Silent Hunter series will certainly survive it. You prove that point yourself. ROF even went one further then SHV is, they sell add on planes.

I am not saying it won't lose them some sales, I am just saying it will come nowhere near making the game a failure. The masses WILL buy it.

Just got done checking it out, and you could be right maybe I wasn't paying attention the whole year straight through (digging sand out of my ears)....and from everything I just read neither were many others (in comparison to a decent portion of the market that clearly alienated) I think the fact that they are small could be a reason why they have survived (very low overhead and everything they made is then mostly profit.) their online community is in fact next to dead. I would venture to guess if they put out another a lot of the people that bought it last time just to see what it was about more than likely will not be buying the next time.

It's real shame too that games looks great but...I guess I will never know how it really works. DRM.

the games community has not given up! this is their recent wish list I stopped copying about half way down... but apparently they are still not happy with DRM.

And apparently the coGeneral:
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY WINDSOCK! (fix it)
Better UI (more in-flight options, menu for hand motions, saving convergence/loadout/paint)
Custom skins (with option to use in-game custom paint interface)
More detailed terrain (hills, valleys, different trees, etc.)
More detailed joystick options (setting of curves and deadzones, better profile mangement)
Quick mission generator
Decrease load times (in whatever ways possible)
External or in-game custom content access
SLI and Crossfire support
In depth manual on the mission editor (including tutorials)
An option to play offline (perhaps just easing up on the online verification frequency)<-----------------------------------------
Improved performace (Anti-aliasing, multi-core support, TrackIR support, etc.)
Ability to run dedicated server without an additional copy <--------------------------------------------

01-27-10, 03:01 AM

This technique reminds me a bit of GTA IV. No big deal IMO, Razor1911 likes to take these kinds of challenges. They will free majority of users from doing these kind of nonsences which casual player doesn't wish to mess around with.. Personally if they will include DRM into SHV I will seriously reconsider whether it is worth buying or it worth simply bein downloaded via torrents with necessary tools to bypass forced internet registration to play the game.

Reece · 01-27-10, 03:08 AM

@ zulus, PM sent.

HundertzehnGustav · 01-27-10, 03:12 AM

zulus, look out where ya walking... you be dancing the chicken dance in a minefield.

with closed eyes.

THE_MASK · 01-27-10, 03:22 AM

If everyone bought the game we wouldnt be in this mess .

01-27-10, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

zulus, look out where ya walking... you be dancing the chicken dance in a minefield.

with closed eyes.

Sorry can't help myself, I'm the adrenalin maniac

Seriously, I just wanted to point out the main thing that doing such things like Implemetation of DRM system will not asure security of a product. For example Rockstar to GTA4 has invested thousands of bucks into copyright security but RZR "sorted" this thing in 3 days or so. So you do the conclussions, what's for me is I dunno is it wise to waste money into things like DRM, actually this system is just silly. I would like to hear more from UBI about this. And are they actually thinking implementing DRM into SH5 ?

01-27-10, 01:26 AM	#241
henriksultan Sailor man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 46 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Just read this at some random blog and jumped right here and found this thread, I just hope this isn't part of SH5 coz I really want this game. Cloud saving is a great thing IF you can choose it, not being forced that is just a retard move. Internet trouble and no go, internet trouble while playing no saving? There is so many what if scenarios that this should not be implemented. Truly I understand your fears of piracy but I can't understand why you keep kicking on the players that actually buy the game because they love it. Please stop it UBI. This might be a buy breaker for me... If you force me to be online and send data to you... I wont buy your games. And will this ** up modding? __________________ Running:** Not enough

01-27-10, 02:16 AM	#246
John W. Hamm Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Timbuktoo Posts: 331 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Came back recently to catch up with RFB and see any new developments on SHV ...I started to get a bit excited and pre-ordered...and I guess that i'm not alone in the fact that the more I read about the content of the game the less excited I became. But i was still willing to give it a chance (knowing the modding community would be there. Now tonight (I guess I missed it the last time I was here) I find this information about DRM and my once great single player game will have to stay connected to the net??? Not a chance. I have Empire total war and when I bought it I had no idea until I got home that I still had to wait on steam to get to play it! and wait mad as hell I did! I didn't use steam on purpose and bought a hard copy...then it turned out I still needed steam! Worse I could not just download patches and save them (which i eventually leaned how to do it just took some creativity) But the worst part about Steam came later, after the Empire Mods came out. I would get the game right where I wanted it using Mods and BAMMM! I was hit with an update (no choice in the matter at all) and not only were the mods wiped out but also all the little tweaks I had made over time. But then I learned you could keep Steam from auto updating! Well that is not so true as you would like to think. 4 times I turned off auto update and 4 times it turned itself back on (I know this didn't happen to everyone but it certainly happened to several people) Now I am not as totally against Steam as I once was. At least not now that ETW is finished being patched and I can play it with Steam turned off. Enough about Steam, DRM makes Steam look good. Now can you imagine SH5 and being connected all the time... middle of a Campaign ...AUTO UPDATE....Sorry but do to the content of this update you will have to start a new campaign!!! and all save games will be unplayable (no matter what you say) I guarantee this will happen! Never before have I seen an entire community be so one sided on an issue, and to be honest this community is the heart of the SH series...lets face it sub games really are a small niche in the gaming industry. And if the core people are this mad... I for once don't see a game getting very far without it's community, I honestly do not think this game will survive on the casual gamer alone. It is my understanding there is a Flight Sim called Rise of Flight and it uses this DRM and in the forums for ROF things were in shambles over DRM, but now people have lightened up... and it's not so bad (this is according to some other post's i had read earlier) and that poster believed that the model he presented for that games community issues with DRM would most likely play out the same for this community with SHV. And that UBI will continue to get money....etc...etc... Well i disagree first Flight sim games in general have a much larger fan base than sub sims. Second me and several friends are avid flight simmers and also fly in RL. Currently I have Falcon 4.0 and it's two top super mods, Flight Sim X, UBI's Pacific Fighters, and Microsoft's Flight Combat ET. So you could say I fly here and there and until I read this forum today I had never heard of Rise of Flight... and neither had any of my friends... so yeah they have a fan base but apparently it could have been a lot bigger. I wonder why it wasn't? All that being said My internet connection actually went out 1 time while I was typing this...Not to mention Cox cable does repairs at least once a week between 3 AM and 5 AM here (which is my prime time to play due to my work schedule) So given the connection issues and the fact that it is just flat wrong I am killing my Pre-order! I have one more thing to add I have always felt like this forum was a home that i could come back to over and over... in this forum you have always been able to see a lot of the same people here time after time and I know all new people have always been given a warm welcome! and it has been next to never that i have ever seen dissent here (save the surface boat thing but that was partly my fault and I accept my share of the blame) but in just this thread there has been a lot of dissent. Like i said earlier most people agree that they do not want to support UBI in this endeavor, I am also one of them, and if you choose to support them that is fine you have your right to your opinion. However to say things to your fellow simmer like (and I am not quoting) Well if you can't get internet or a good signal that is just your tough luck!!????? or this reason or that reason too bad for you???? Come on guys this is one of those things that are prima-facia! whats right is right! and whats wrong is wrong! If you support UBI in this clearly you are going against a whole bunch of your core fellow sub simmers and in this case I really feel like there is a legitimate gripe here! __________________ Elvis has left the building

01-27-10, 02:33 AM	#247
jazman Commander Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Crush Depth Posts: 449 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	If the reviews of SH5 are good, most of you will come crawling back like a beaten dog. As for me, the Pacific awaits: Silent Hunter 4, and War in the Pacific. __________________ "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- Chesterton

01-27-10, 02:38 AM	#249
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	ROF hasn't exsactly had the biggest sales for a combat flight sim... I'm told the multpilayer is dead. __________________

01-27-10, 03:08 AM	#252
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 33,525 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	@ zulus, PM sent. __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

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01-27-10, 01:54 AM	#243
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	We'll eventually all have free internet on our fingernails, through subspace, or whatever... But until then, if Ubi decides to use an online DRM for SH5, I won't buy the game. The main attraction of the game, for me, is that I can play it on my 4-month long VLCC trips. We do have internet there, but not like THAT. It's more like one mail per day or 10 mins of Yahoo Messenger to talk to the miss. It would be a major blow, I really was looking forward to playing the game. Oh well, we'll see. Not long to go now.

01-27-10, 02:07 AM	#244
Radioshow Bosun Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 64 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	I belong to a clan for SWAT4 and COD4 with over 100 members, a great number of them are from Australia. Now their Inet costs twice as much or more than here in Canada and they are heavily restricted and limited in bandwidth. So what does an Aussie do when they are halfway through the month and are capped(limited to dialup speed or worse)? Do you not play SH5 for the rest of the month because you don't have the bandwidth. There are other considerations besides just having a connection. My router likes to get fracked and stop responding once in a while and i have to restart it. What do I do then? How do I play on my other pc's without Inet? DRM isn't so much the problem with me. Its the fact that they are giving us less and asking for more. I have over 80 store bought dos games that were not even close to 50$ when they came out. They had many hours of gameplay, a huge printed manual, and had replayability. Why should I pay $50 or more for a game that will last one weekend and its done. Granted sh5 is not a one weekend game but most now are 10-15 hours gameplay at best with the odd exception of Oblivion or Fallout3. All this to prevent piracy and resales is just Most pirates would not have bought the game anyway, dont tell me they would have bought it if they couldnt pirate it. So they really are not losing revenue just missing out on some potential revenue. The game costs $50 or more, if I want to trade or sell to a friend, well they got their money why cant resale it at EBgames or something after say a year. By then many games are hard to find in stores and I dont have a CreditCard to buy online. I got alot of old dos games used at EBgames. I pay for my games but I cant afford $50 on a game that "might" work ok or might not. I also dont have a lot of money, suppose I can no longer afford a net connection for a while? If this was a DVD you bought ,and they get hijacked enough, would you be ok with calling everytime to watch it. Or having a limited number of viewings, on only 1 DVD player, that has to be connected to inet and if your net goes down you cant watch it? Movies cost alot more to make and I'm sure are pirated much more yet they do less to protect them. I find a game not really any different. Its a piece of entertainment media you paid good money for to enjoy in your home at your leisure, not theirs. If people aren't buying enough of your games UBI look to yourself! Activation, fine. Online to check it, fine. Online while playing and online save games, not fine. I dont need them checking my PC for census info or whatever. If I'm paying good money for a game, I expect to play it when I want, where I want.

01-27-10, 03:01 AM	#251
zulus Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	This technique reminds me a bit of GTA IV. No big deal IMO, Razor1911 likes to take these kinds of challenges. They will free majority of users from doing these kind of nonsences which casual player doesn't wish to mess around with.. Personally if they will include DRM into SHV I will seriously reconsider whether it is worth buying or it worth simply bein downloaded via torrents with necessary tools to bypass forced internet registration to play the game.

01-27-10, 03:12 AM	#253
HundertzehnGustav Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lux, betw. G, B and F Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	zulus, look out where ya walking... you be dancing the chicken dance in a minefield. with closed eyes. __________________ In conclusion: SH3 is the shizzle, yo. -Frau Kaleun Another negative about using your deck gun is that you are definately DETECTED, which has long term effects on your relationship with aircraft. -snestorm

01-27-10, 03:22 AM	#254
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	If everyone bought the game we wouldnt be in this mess .