GER politics thread

[Catfish]

re why the AfD is an extremist party, and it is not only about overthrowing democracy

https://www-institut--fuer--menschen..._x_tr_pto=wapp

[Dargo]

In the Dutch House of Representatives elections in November 2023, the turnout rate was 77.7%, about 1.1% lower than last time. Highest was in 1977 a turnout percentage of 88.1% since then it fluctuates up and down you can't draw any real conclusion from turnout percentage the majority keeps voting and that's how our democracy works the majority decides.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Had to translate this danish article and post it here in our GER politics thread.

I presume he is very much wrong in his statement

Markus

Absolute freedom means absolute responsibility. There will always be consequences, the way consequences are delivered can differ. Some of the ways to deliver consequences are more in line with repression or even totalitarian than others. Musk as “Free speech absolutist” is by default absolute totalitarian!

Nobel laureate Doris Lessing in her book Prisons we choose to live inside. Brainwashing, Lessing writes, has three elements. The first is creating fear and tension ‘the country is going down’ alternating with relaxation, ‘the sun is going to shine again.’ The second element is repetition. Saying the same thing over and over again, shouting, screaming. The third is reducing complex reality to simple slogans. ‘’Close the borders‘’.

If you see AFD voters as people who have been brainwashed, the perspective changes. In public discourse, they are never viewed that way. There, they are disgruntled voters or racists. Rarely are they portrayed as victims of deception. The AFD makes people racist who weren't before, there they too. Racism is also a form of brainwashing. We are not born racists, anyone who works in a kindergarten knows, we are made that way. Without us realising it. Don't believe simple slogans. Not even those of people you agree with, because brainwashing is not tied to political affiliation. The politicians and media totally distorted reality into a totally different story, fuelling hatred. It would be good if the people would dare to think, how they themselves are accountable to the government and administration. However, the people demand all sorts of things, do not act in accordance with their own laws and rules, yet call to account those who are trying to remedy the shortcomings every so often and demand the most contradictory things from them. Self-interest and the delusion of the day is more decisive than reasonable sense and the common good.

Those who are not for us are against us. Everything foreign must be banished and is a threat to the true nature of the people. This creates an atmosphere of arbitrariness and lawlessness, whereby anyone can be made an enemy of the system by anyone. All this for the glory of the populist leaders. The restoration or the road back to a free society in function of the common good will require ever greater sacrifices if the dissenting voices delay and recoil from the violence of the demagogues. ‘Wir haben es nicht gewusst’.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

re why the AfD is an extremist party, and it is not only about overthrowing democracy

https://www-institut--fuer--menschen..._x_tr_pto=wapp

This “institute” is like Deutsche Umwelthilfe, for example: formally and on paper politically independent, but actually commissioned and financed by the Bundestag. In other words: an alibi actor, and closely linked to the UN, which is anything but impartial.

“Wessen Brot ich ess, dessen Lied ich sing'...”

This does not necessarily mean that everything that is said against the AfD is wrong. But the basic tone of the argumentation is clear, and is charged with maximum opportunism, actually always. The Nazi club is always immediately swung and slobbered against everything that does not correspond to the politically desired woke-left-red-green standardization.

I myself have repeatedly described the AfD as a "Dreckspartei" and denied it the presence of competent experts at federal level, in addition to its obvious closeness to Russia and its postulate of wanting to leave NATO. No, I haven't forgotten all that! So, I have no illusions. I once called them an Sturmtruppe - to tear down and destroy the existing party representation; the other parties cannot be trusted to do that. I don't see German politics or the EU being capable of reform anywhere, not even in homeopathic doses.

However, there is cooperation with the AfD in a few local circles, out of necessity. Some of their people seem to be failing - as predicted. Others are doing a good job. Good enough at least that the others at least tolerate them and work together without bickering and bluster. There is also a spectrum of opinion in the AfD, not just one, all-dominant doctrine. And the will to opportunism also corrupts “iron” principles in the AfD. For example, there is a conflict between the demands of some that the family should be viewed as father-mother-child, similar to what I also demand. At the same time, they have a party leader who lives in a lesbian relationship with a partner (from Sri Lanka...) and has two adopted sons. I guess that's what you call “flexibility”... By the way, I can't stand Weidel for the life of me. So please don't draw the wrong conclusions.

The problem is - the AfD is the only alternative in the party spectrum with a realistic chance of shaking up the far-left, woke, green-red status quo. There is no one else in sight who even has a chance of doing so. Nobody. So if someone says “never with the AfD”, they have codified the woke green-red misery until the end of time - and I will not accept that, ever: because it pisses me off completely, totally, unlimitedly.

In the event of a coalition between the CDU/CSU and AfD, the CDU would (still) be the stronger party, with a ratio of around 3:2. Such a government would force the AfD to put its cards on the table and prove what it is willing and able to do - and what it is not. It would either prove its ability to compromise, or its inability. One of the two. The former would be a gain, the latter a disaster as predicted by many - but no greater disaster than 3 years of energy and economic destruction by the traffic light government and 16 years of Merkel.

The disaster that red-green, and before that Merkel, are responsible for is a historically proven fact, it is beyond doubt, it is stated, certified and proven. In contrast, the claim that the AfD performs in a way that in the end it is just as much to blame for this is less important and is first and foremost an assertion and speculation: just a claim. It remains to be seen what will come of it. If necessary, the CDU could pull the emergency brake and let the coalition collapse prematurely.

Normally, I would not agree to this experiment either. But the situation is as self-destructive as it is desperate. If we continue to practice this left-wing, woke red-green and uncritically EU-friendly mishmash, we really don't stand a chance.

The AfD would probably fail in government, just like everyone else. That's what even I say! But - it has never been proven by example. The others have all proven their incompetence and unsuitability, not just in their slogans and catchphrases, but in their actions and the tangible consequences. A disaster. We have practically nothing left to lose that would not get lost without drastic change anyway.

Let them show us whether they can do something - or not. They will probably fulfill our expectations (including mine!!) and fail. Yes, even I assume that! The worst case would be as expected. Or the worst-case scenario will not happen. That would be an unlikely surprise. But a positive one. So what do we have to lose? Just endless red-green politicking, and I don't have a good word to say for that.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The problem is - the AfD is the only alternative in the party spectrum with a realistic chance of shaking up the far-left, woke, green-red status quo. There is no one else in sight who even has a chance of doing so. Nobody. So if someone says “never with the AfD”, they have codified the woke green-red misery until the end of time - and I will not accept that, ever: because it pisses me off completely, totally, unlimitedly.

Let them show us whether they can do something - or not. They will probably fulfill our expectations (including mine!!) and fail. Yes, even I assume that! The worst case would be as expected. Or the worst-case scenario will not happen. That would be an unlikely surprise. But a positive one. So what do we have to lose? Just endless red-green politicking, and I don't have a good word to say for that.

Oh sure, let them try what absolute could go wrong.
The 78 AfD-Bondsdag members and the group do not provide information on the exact number of collaborators, but the journalists managed to identify 500 of them and investigate their backgrounds. More than 100 of them are active in organisations classified as right-wing extremist by the security service Verfassungsschutz. These include groups such as the Reichsbürger, Ein Prozent, and the Identitäre Bewegung. https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutsc...beiter,U6iXl6t

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Oh sure, let them try what absolute could go wrong.
The 78 AfD-Bondsdag members and the group do not provide information on the exact number of collaborators, but the journalists managed to identify 500 of them and investigate their backgrounds. More than 100 of them are active in organisations classified as right-wing extremist by the security service Verfassungsschutz. These include groups such as the Reichsbürger, Ein Prozent, and the Identitäre Bewegung. https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutsc...beiter,U6iXl6t

Just out of interest, the extreme right is the only faction you deem as a threat? unchecked extreme left = no problem?

[Skybird]

Alternatives to woke left red green politics. If not at least once trying the AfD - who else then?

Anyone?

Any alternative offerings...?

Any ideas...??

Nothing...???

Well. Thats not convincing. I am not impressed.

I am 57. Since over 35 years or so I observe politics as a more or less adult being. These years brought me to where I am. I have never voted for any party or any politician, I never legitimised any one of them for anything, not to mention: speaking on my behalf and speaking for me. I never trusted any of them, and the past 35 years, year for year, proved me right not to do so. And here I live, in a country that goes down the gutter and in a time that sees the influential European heritage beign raped, abused and dispised.

And I am not allowed to disagree with this self-destruction, and am expected to support those who finish off the little rest that remained so far?

If that is so, then I say: let it all burn down, burn down, burn down. I will not lend one cup of water.

I don't like the "right", or Nazis. It is just that I do not see the "left" or the socialists as any better. The latter are the same sort of scum as the former. I despise them both, equally. They are two souls in one body, and what they are called as, "Nazhi" or "Socialist", depends on the context of the raving party at which they show their ugly faces.

Lets use the one against the other - to finally get rid of both.

[Catfish]

The word 'woke' originated in African American Vernacular English to refer to being 'woken up to' or alert to issues around racial injustice.
Using this word by today's right wing for everything they do not like is moronic.
Which is what you are. I'm out of here.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Alternatives to woke left red green politics. If not at least once trying the AfD - who else then?

Anyone?

Any alternative offerings...?

Any ideas...??

Nothing...???

Well. Thats not convincing. I am not impressed.

I am 57. Since over 35 years or so I observe politics as a more or less adult being. These years brought me to where I am. I have never voted for any party or any politician, I never legitimised any one of them for anything, not to mention: speaking on my behalf and speaking for me. I never trusted any of them, and the past 35 years, year for year, proved me right not to do so. And here I live, in a country that goes down the gutter and in a time that sees the influential European heritage beign raped, abused and dispised.

And I am not allowed to disagree with this self-destruction, and am expected to support those who finish off the little rest that remained so far?

If that is so, then I say: let it all burn down, burn down, burn down. I will not lend one cup of water.

I don't like the "right", or Nazis. It is just that I do not see the "left" or the socialists as any better. The latter are the same sort of scum as the former. I despise them both, equally. They are two souls in one body, and what they are called as, "Nazhi" or "Socialist", depends on the context of the raving party at which they show their ugly faces.

Lets use the one against the other - to finally get rid of both.

I am not gone do the thinking for you that is your problem sit back and biaach what other do wrong. If you want change YOU have do something about that yourselve live is not a free ride.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Just out of interest, the extreme right is the only faction you deem as a threat? unchecked extreme left = no problem?

That "unchecked extreme left" are the ones beside me on the street to confront those fascist! Fascism is not to be debated, it is to be destroyed!

[mapuc]

Whatever happened to the free speech under responsibility ? Seems to me it's only some who have this right while others shall keep their mouth closed.

Far right, have the right to speak and we have the privileges to reject their words. Same goes for far left.

NO one is above or under the law of free speech.

Markus

[Skybird]

switch on english subtitles.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Far right, have the right to speak and we have the privileges to reject their words.

It's usually the "conservatives" and far right who see "Freedom of Speech" as "I am allowed to say everything I want and everybody else has to shut up"

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

It's usually the "conservatives" and far right who see "Freedom of Speech" as "I am allowed to say everything I want and everybody else has to shut up"

No one has the right to close the mouth on their opponent. Yes there is a huge responsibility in free speech. I love free speech with a limit. Mocking another person for his standpoint or belief is not ok.

Markus

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Dargo

That "unchecked extreme left" are the ones beside me on the street to confront those fascist! Fascism is not to be debated, it is to be destroyed!

So thats a no.. interesting.