ImprovedConvoys Beta and UnRealUBoat - Udated: 03-25

[CCIP]

1) Yes. That's what Jason put out the other day. Download from 1st page

2) Oh, trust me, that's by far not the worst problem with defeated traffic. Try Norwegian C3's in Skagerrak in summer 1941

That's something which is kind of outside the scope of the mod. It could be fairly easily tweaked by looking up defeated nations' RND groups and their entry dates, but I'd rather it be done through just browsing the RND file instead of trying to look for them in the editor. So, if someone wants to take that on... that'd be good :hmm:

[jaxa]

antidotos - many Polish merchants after German invasion were in foreign ports and survived. Polish trade fleet serves for transport duty in Atlantic convoys and Polish light cruisers, destroyers and submarines fight with German.

[Happy Times]

http://www.warsailors.com/convoys/index.html I dont know Jason if you allready have seen this page but i put it here anyway.Seems that some of those had close to 20-30% of ships non uk/us origin.Nationalietes i havent seen in sh3 included Poland,Belgium,Panama,Yuogoslavia and different Baltic states.I know IC is a work in process(so is this website also) but thougt id ask do you have plans concerning the nationalities?

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

http://www.warsailors.com/convoys/index.html I dont know Jason if you allready have seen this page but i put it here anyway.Seems that some of those had close to 20-30% of ships non uk/us origin.Nationalietes i havent seen in sh3 included Poland,Belgium,Panama,Yuogoslavia and different Baltic states.I know IC is a work in process(so is this website also) but thougt id ask do you have plans concerning the nationalities?

I don't have any figures and I'm too lazy to guess at the correct proportions for Baltic nations. Poland had too limited a role to show up in the statistics Observer did for IC and the tonnage mod for SH3 Commander to have much information on Poland, so I didn't include it.

I could include Panama, but someone would have to give me figures. I'm too lazy to guess. I've looked at warsailors and many other sites, but after two and a half months the motivation isn't there. IC is pretty close to complete.

Seriously, I just can't think of much to add.

I did the nationalities because it seemed reasonable, but personally I just fire away. I don't bother with the flags and rarely care what nation's ship I've hit.

The size and ship type composition was important, but that's now complete. The speed thing was important and I guessed when historical information wasn't available. CCIP dealt with the lack of intelligent convoy movement. I am still working on ensuring the escort screen is reasonable, but not too easy or too hard. That's tough. I setup what I think is a reasonable single merchant ship reduction. It can be tweaked.

I don't know that I want to tackle every issue in the RND layer, though. Rogue single merchants from defeated nations isn't really an issue, since the reduction mod makes single merchant traffic irrelevant after '40 anyway.

I'd create a specific RND entry for each convoy route for each year, but the only substantial changes will be escorts and so little is available on historical composition, combined with such a limited game engine, I couldn't make the changes visible enough for me to feel it warrants the effort.

I'd add Panama to Atlantic convoys where historically accurate, but only if someone will provide me actual figures and not just links to Web sites where I have to perform my own research. I just don't have the time anymore.

So, unless anyone has anything else that seems fairly serious that I missed, there isn't much left I intend to contribute. I'm going to attempt another rebalance of escorts after I've actually played it some now that I have a faster rig, but other than that, I don't have much planned.

I still haven't done most of the Med convoys or AS, but nearly no one plays there, so I don't see much point. (Especially since I don't think _I_ will ever play in those places.)

[CCIP]

Heh, I wouldn't worry though. In fact it will be a good thing when IC is complete and final, since I'm sure that'll better open it up as a base for further possible RND edits by others who are willing while still enjoying the IC features.

I think it's easy to realize that, well, there's always gonna be enough small things to mod in the campaign - but it's the big ones, which the IC mainly addresses, that are really worth the effort.

Anyway... Jason has the right idea here. With stuff like tweaking more minor nations' traffic, it's less an issue of ability and more an issue of interest. Anyone interested in actually doing this? It's pretty straightforward, really, and I think it'd be easily possible to coordinate those sorts of changes with IC, ops, and so forth :hmm:

[antidotos]

Jaxa, I know Polish ships fought well during the battle of the Atlantic, What I said was that it would have been suicidal for Polish merchantmen to remain in the Baltic after September, I think they exited as soon as they got an opportunity.
Thanks CCIP and Jason for the hard work and the clarifications.
Personally I would be interested in a better handling of minor and defeated powers, only problem I m really bad at hex editing....Now if there is a handy tool somewhere....

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by antidotos

Jaxa, I know Polish ships fought well during the battle of the Atlantic, What I said was that it would have been suicidal for Polish merchantmen to remain in the Baltic after September, I think they exited as soon as they got an opportunity.
Thanks CCIP and Jason for the hard work and the clarifications.
Personally I would be interested in a better handling of minor and defeated powers, only problem I m really bad at hex editing....Now if there is a handy tool somewhere....

It's all text based processing, fortunately.

However, any mistakes and you end up with crashes, sometimes at load time, sometimes at encounter time. Depends on the type of error.

Or you can use the editor. Most of the groups have the nation in the name of the group. So you can find the 'PolishCoastalTraffic39' or whatever and adjust the exit date for it, if you want.

I just don't have the time to mess with it.

I passed up playing SH3 for BF2 Demo again last night. Sigh. I guess I am just bored. Or maybe I just don't like my type IIA.

[jaxa]

antidotos - you have absolutely right

[jaxa]

antidotos - you have absolutely right

[antidotos]

Thanks Jason,
I will plough into this local traffic thing.....
what is BF2 ?

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by antidotos

what is BF2 ?

Battlefield 2, the sequel to Battlefield 1942.

[antidotos]

Thanks Luke for BF2, eh....
Actually I do not like this sort of game so I do not really know their acronyms.

[Gammel]

I spotted this poor souls on oct, 22 1940. Grid DT93
Convoy is unarmed and has no escort ships.
Is this correct? Why they sail as a convoy makes no sence to me.

Here are screenshots (brighness adjusted for better visibility here in forum, it was late evening)

[antidotos]

I wouldn't want to say something stupid but historically I think some fast convoys were not directly escorted, I m practically sure of this in the Med with French ships (liners with troops), the case for formal Atlantic convoy is murkier.

[Gammel]

they where slow too, 7 knots.

(btw, 50k tons down so far, 2 eals left, out of gun ammo.)