Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

No. I do not own it but I know people that do... and I have seen more than enough.

So it is your pleasure now to reply to my questions... or to explain to all this web sites, veteran members, disapointed owners, price droppers... etc. - to get serious!

OK, thanks.. I just wanted to know if you know actually what you were talking about of if you were just jumping on the bandwagon. Now I do.

As to your questions...

Did You ask PC IGN if they have the game ?

No, there was no need. It was pretty obvious that they owned the game. Also, I don't see them logging in here constantly and trashing the game, so there was no opportunity to ask them.

Did You ask game experts that rated the game from 20% - 50.5% if they have a game ?

Well I consider Neal somewhat of an expert so I tend to take him at his word. As well I have been around Subsims for a while so I like to make my own judgements and assesments of Subsims... rather than take the word of someone I don't know anything about.

Is it a lay that Ubi - pushed DRM into mouth of sim community (pirats ?) that kept alive SH series for a years and years... ?

Not sure exactly what you mean by "a lay", but no one "pushed" anything on anyone. Any informed consumer knew what was involved as far as the DRM and made a concious choice to buy or not to buy. No one forced anyone to buy anything.

Is it a lay that Ubi released commercial & unfinished product that - sim community should mod and convert into simulator ?

It was the same with Silent Hunter, Silent Hunter 2, Silent Hunter 3 and Silent Hunter 4.

I am an adult so I knew pretty much what to expect. I don't feel that I am entitled to anything. I make my choices based on the best information I can get (and in the case of Subsims it is Subsim.com) and my personal experience and observations, and I accept the consequences. Good and bad.

Did You ask yourself - where are all these famous "long term" names of Subsim that are not even playing "this" - let alone moding it or participating SH5 forum ?

There is lots of modding activity already for Silenter Hunter 5 and more to come after people see what the patch does and doesn't do. As far as the "famous names" I assume they are sick of all of the drama here and are either playing the game, waiting for the patches or DRM to be removed or have moved on altogether. If it is the latter then I am thankful that at least they have the maturity to know that they don't have to post the same tired complaints over and over and over again.

Plus, I am not exactly new around these parts myself.

I don't need to "preserve" anything other than what these forums are for which is that "we want the Radio Room to be a civil, mature forum for discussions about naval and subsims, tactics, mods, playing tips, troubleshooting, and submarine topics in general." Jumping into any number of threads and complaining about a game that you don't even own does not meet any of those criteria.

JCC

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I agree with you JC, but some of that AI is really dumb. I mean to the point of "no sane person would act that way" dumb. Escorts and planes should at least acknowledge the fact that you exist. They may be fairly inept in prosecuting a contact and that would be believeable, but too many times I've run through convoys firing off torpedoes left and right without the escorts even reacting at all. And of course the planes that do nothing issue is another kettle of fish.

Planes are a problem, I agree. But as far as escorts not reacting check out the reaction the Gunter Prien got in Scappa Flow. All of the reports of how the game is responding to the same situation are pretty accurate.

There are countless examples of where early war escorts did nothing during attacks. It wasn't because they didn't want to, it was becasue they either didn't know how to or didn't have the technology to react. Otherwise how would it have been possible to surface in the middle of a convoy and spend hours torpedoing ships (as happened in real life).

Previous iterations of the series either had, or were modded to have opponents with almost omnicient awareness of your position, depth and speed, regardless of the period of the war. This was completely unrealistic.

This is not to say there are not problems (the "me and my shadow" AI is one that comes to mind), but people who are still in 1939-1941/2 should check out the historical records. They might be surprised what they find. There was a reason it was refered to as the "Happy Times".

As the war progresses watch what happens.

JCC

[Safe-Keeper]

Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?

Don't feed the trolls. The more attention you give them, the more they act up. If they want to act like little children and wind up on everyone's ignore lists, so be it. Their choice.

Yeah, I saw that movie. That's a Hollywood solution, won't work in real life. A lot of people with low emotional triggers yelling in anger...that goes on for maybe 15 minutes, nothing is solved except people who are trying to read or sleep are disturbed. Then the angry mob gets tired of shouting and go to the fridge for a beer.

True. Activism is such that the fun, easy solutions (demonstrating in streets, buying locally, etc.) very rarely are the ones that actually bring about significant (or even noticeable) improvements. If you want to bring about change, you have to put up with doing boring stuff.

This is not to say there are not problems (the "me and my shadow" AI is one that comes to mind), but people who are still in 1939-1941/2 should check out the historical records. They might be surprised what they find. There was a reason it was refered to as the "Happy Times".

Oh, that's just Frau_Kaleun. Just ignore her, she's harmless most of the time.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Oh, that's just Frau_Kaleun. Just ignore her, she's harmless most of the time.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by John Channing

This is not to say there are not problems (the "me and my shadow" AI is one that comes to mind), but people who are still in 1939-1941/2 should check out the historical records. They might be surprised what they find. There was a reason it was refered to as the "Happy Times".

Planes that do not have bombs or torpedoes won't attack, they only report. The AI scripting has some peculiarites, so harbour patrols won't respond to you in some situations. The same situations affect convoys and the date doesn't affect their response (or lack of response). I need to re-read 'U-Boat Killer' by Donald Macintyre to get a feel for what they did and I have ordered a few books that should help understand convoy guarding behaviour mod.

I'm doing an AI mod at the moment, but it's hard to balance what people expect (un-realistic behaviour) with what they should do. One thing that I am sure of is that just ramping up the sensors does not an exciting encounter make, so I am trying to avoid making an 'AI' mod that is a sensor mod only. My aim is for smarter escorts, but with the same limitted sensors (or realistic sensors).

One Destroyer that was radar equipped and was in heavy fog with a new crew managed to sail along with the convoy, not notice that a large group of escorts had joined them and their own group of escorts had left for home. The author says that this crew was more of a hinderance to the convoy than to the U-boats.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Don't feed the trolls. The more attention you give them, the more they act up. If they want to act like little children and wind up on everyone's ignore lists, so be it. Their choice.

True. Activism is such that the fun, easy solutions (demonstrating in streets, buying locally, etc.) very rarely are the ones that actually bring about significant (or even noticeable) improvements. If you want to bring about change, you have to put up with doing boring stuff.

Oh, that's just Frau_Kaleun. Just ignore her, she's harmless most of the time.

Have you ever seen her in "Joe Pecsi" mode? You would change your mind rapidly!

JCC

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Planes that do not have bombs or torpedoes won't attack, they only report. The AI scripting has some peculiarites, so harbour patrols won't respond to you in some situations. The same situations affect convoys and the date doesn't affect their response (or lack of response). I need to re-read 'U-Boat Killer' by Donald Macintyre to get a feel for what they did and I have ordered a few books that should help understand convoy guarding behaviour mod.

I'm doing an AI mod at the moment, but it's hard to balance what people expect (un-realistic behaviour) with what they should do. One thing that I am sure of is that just ramping up the sensors does not an exciting encounter make, so I am trying to avoid making an 'AI' mod that is a sensor mod only. My aim is for smarter escorts, but with the same limitted sensors (or realistic sensors).

One Destroyer that was radar equipped and was in heavy fog with a new crew managed to sail along with the convoy, not notice that a large group of escorts had joined them and their own group of escorts had left for home. The author says that this crew was more of a hinderance to the convoy than to the U-boats.

That is good news - good luck I hope you figure it out.

An ideal example of the AI's problems is what happened to me whilst playing today.

I was a bit bored and the next mission in the campaign wasn't up yet so I headed out to Scapa Flow for some fun (I'm using the Uboat killer AI mod at the mo) Managed to sneak in ok , got to firing range on the 2 battleships , was able to fire, reload and fire again without any of the DD's breaking off from their patrols and attacking me.

On the way out I did get spotted and the DD steamed over to where I was. Being that the depth under keel was about 17 meters I figured I was dead. Straight away he does a depth charge run, there's a huge explosion - I'm flooding pretty much everywhere , sparks etc. Bloody chief engineer wont stop the flooding because he's injured lol. So I sneak a look outside and would you believe it? The DD has blown its own keel off with a depth charge lol.

Anyway to cut a long story short, I put that one down to the inexperience of the tommy's (it's '39 still) and headed out.

On the way out 3 DD's start tracking me and closing, I dive to periscope depth and they run aground in pursuit lol.

So there is room for improvement yes. Did it ruin my day - nope loved every minute

[ENtek-IO]

Bilge RAt wrote:
"apology accepted "


In your dreams MAte.
In German we call the above Dum Dreist.

Oh wait in English it is i think called "brashly impertinent"




Bilge RAt: wrote:
"and I have the greatest respect for the German people, notwithstanding my juvenile attempt at humour. Humble apologies all around if anyone was offended by the cartoon... (although it was funny )"

Oh really?? Guess what,look into my eye,.... ,you are trying weasel out of this situation that's all.

Your cartoons are not funny , but they are subversive.

You are not a Brit by chance? You know one of those guys who speak cogney? Because Usually that kind of crap is coming from the isle, London.. SUN Style.


You really start to make the impression that it is your goal to piss people off.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by ENtek-IO

You are not a Brit by chance? You know one of those guys who speak cogney? Because Usually that kind of crap is coming from the isle, London.. SUN Style.

I understand where you are coming from , I have German friends and I winced when I saw the cartoon. That said, having a go at us Brits is no better IMO.

And it's Cockney

Edit to add: You have a point about Sun readers though

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Speak for yourself, mate. That's your opinion, I would be quite happy with a new subsim every year.

Even if its a buggy subsim like SH5 ??

I still say I would have rather UBI gave the money to the DEVS to FINISH SH4 PROPERLY and maybe add a ATLANTIC campaign.

As opposed to coming up with several novel and GREAT ideas and only implement them to a 50% level and say "here is your finsihed sim...hope you like". I mean WTF?? Who in thier right mind would think its a good idea to release something half finished ...then feign disbelief when the fans and reviewers rip it to shreads?

Sorry I would rather wait 5 years or more to get a complete product.... Now if one could be released every year...complete....HECK YA IM IN

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by ENtek-IO

You really start to make the impression that it is your goal to piss people off.

There you go trolling again.


I dont really care what you think about SH5 or what your problem is.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

There you go trolling again.


I dont really care what you think about SH5 or what your problem is.

Is it trolling if we say something positive about SH5 before saying something negative?

Like:

The Box SH5 comes in has nice pictures.

then:

It makes a nice coaster for my coffee mug while I play YYYY Sim.


This trolling was brought to you by the letter Y (and sometimes X if we are in the mood to be dirty).

(PS...just trying to lighten your mood up like you did for me a few pages back :P )

[Faamecanic]

I wish to file a formal complaint about the complaint by the OP about the complainers complaing about complaints (note these complaints are completely unrelated to any of my complaints about complainers complaining about my compliants).

Wait.... I will start my own thread for this..... being as I just realized the OP did not address my complaint!!

[Nisgeis]

Hey! That's two nice things you said about it.

[kanfield1]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

It is pathetic game from the day one:

Simulation community should swallow arcade RPG, DRM, 40% finished product, boring campaign, support the brand with they money...etc.

...and Ubi ?

What steps UBi displayed so far or announced as next ?

For mutual "love and support" - it takes two sides...

Ubi made a commercial product for mass-gaming instead of simulation... OK. Fair enaugh - so enjoy your sales results...

***
You don't have to serve sim community... but please show some respect to people who kept SH brand for ten years.

ditto to Neal & Bilge Rat. some of you complainers sound like you've spent a whole 1/2 hour in the game. talk about instant gratifcation. did it ever occur to you that part of the game IS discovering how to do (or earn) certain features?
maybe you'd be happier with some 5 minute goal on the X-box.

p.s. "Fair enaugh". excuse me, but your education is showing...