Government Shutdown

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

According to the news here. they blame the continuing crisis and the failure in further discussion on a rightwings group named Tea Party Republican

Is this true or is it more behind the story, that meets the eye?

Markus

I think your media is just parroting ours. The majority of our news media is left wing, as such they tend to place blame on the right wing with regularity. That said, I think there is some truth to tea party republican's having blame, but at this point I do not think it is the whole truth.

At this point, i think the entire truth is that our two party system is gridlocked because the Democrats are (from the last i read) stubbornly refusing to compromise or negotiate in the slightest. While the republicans tying in of Obamacare may or may not have been a good idea, they have budged from their previous position three times. Democrats, not one iota.

I've stopped reading the news about this whole ordeal last week, so my knowledge is out of date, but the impression i was left with as of last week was the republicans won't move anymore then they already have, and the democrats won't move at all.

I'm sure the details of situation has changed since last I bothered to keep up with it.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I think your media is just parroting ours. The majority of our news media is left wing, as such they tend to place blame on the right wing with regularity. That said, I think there is some truth to tea party republican's having blame, but at this point I do not think it is the whole truth.

At this point, i think the entire truth is that our two party system is gridlocked because the Democrats are (from the last i read) stubbornly refusing to compromise or negotiate in the slightest. While the republicans tying in of Obamacare may or may not have been a good idea, they have budged from their previous position three times. Democrats, not one iota.

I've stopped reading the news about this whole ordeal last week, so my knowledge is out of date, but the impression i was left with as of last week was the republicans won't move anymore then they already have, and the democrats won't move at all.

I'm sure the details of situation has changed since last I bothered to keep up with it.

Ditto.
I'm not paying attention to this. Is it still going on?

[JU_88]

Not much has changed , its still going on -back and forth, except time is almost up and its getting quite scary now.
Looks like the senate draft is up for vote in the house this afternoon (US time)- if it doesn't go though... I don't know what tomorrow will bring other than the markets nose diving....
But if the US defaults on Thursday or soon there after things will get ugly very quickly and it wont take long for likes of you and me to feel the shockwaves in some form or another.
I'm still just trying to digest the fact that this insane partisan bickering, could well end up hurling the entire developed world back in to recession part 2 or worse, its unbelievable and completely insane.
Its blindingly obvious that the US federal government needs to tighten its belt a notch or trillion, but defaulting is really is no way to go about it.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Not much has changed , its still going on -back and forth, except time is almost up and its getting quite scary now.
Looks like the senate draft is up for vote in the house this afternoon (US time)- if it doesn't go though... I don't know what tomorrow will bring other than the markets nose diving....
But if the US defaults on Thursday or soon there after things will get ugly very quickly and it wont take long for likes of you and me to feel the shockwaves in some form or another.
I'm still just trying to digest the fact that this insane partisan bickering, could well end up hurling the entire developed world back in to recession part 2 or worse, its unbelievable and completely insane.
Its blindingly obvious that the US federal government needs to tighten its belt a notch or trillion, but defaulting is really is no way to go about it.

I'd say, they need to take the scissors to the bamster's credit card.

they have budged from their previous position three times. Democrats, not one iota.

they have not budged from their position at all, they started off insisting that to pass a budget motion they would extort something else along with it which is entirely unrelated, they are still insisting on extorting on the unrelated issue before they will deal with the budget.
If some low life scammer stopped you on the street demanding that you give him $100 to him buy new shoes before you can continue down the street he is not really budging from his previous dumb position if he drops it to $50 then $25, its still just a nonsense scheme which has no place in your passage down the road.

[Armistead]

What makes me mad is the media saying America voted for Obamacare. Just compare what Obamacare was during the election and what it is now. America didn't vote for all the exemptions, taxes, lies and cost increases.

Fix it before implementation or scrap it.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I'd say, they need to take the scissors to the bamster's credit card.

yeah but at what cost? risking a default of the worlds largest economy and issuer of the worlds reserve currency?
Talk about cut of your nose to spite your face.... That's not cutting up a credit card, thats pulling the plug out of America and the global economy

I don't know how Obama care is being funded, and I REALLY don't get the thinking behind any new expenditure when you are already 16+ trillion in the red.
But IMO Anyone still obsessing about Obama care or any other partisan garbage at this stage of the game could really use slap in the face.... with a chair. (given what is at stake here)

I'm not saying its best to just kick the can down the road indefinitely. Sure you need to pick the can up and fix it, but kicking it over the edge of the cliff will be a disaster.
The debt ceiling needs go up and then controlled cuts need to be made, that is the only sensible option in my mind.

[Rockstar]

Maybe in order to understand politics, we have to look at the word itself: "Politics". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "Poli" and "tics". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is politics.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by JU_88

yeah but at what cost? risking a default of the worlds largest economy and issuer of the worlds reserve currency?
Talk about cut of your nose to spite your face....

I don't know how Obama care is being funded, and I REALLY don't get the thinking behind any increased expenditure when you are already 16+ trillion in the red.
But IMO Anyone still obsessing about Obama care or any other partisan garbage at this stage of the game could really use slap in the face.... with a chair. (given what is at stake here)

I'm not saying its best to just kick the can down the road indefinitely. Sure you need to pick the can up and fix it, but kicking it over the edge of the cliff will be a disaster.
The debt ceiling needs go up and then controlled cuts need to be made, that is the only sensible option in my mind.

The problem is Obamacare will be a big economic disaster for the US in it's present form. The other problem is we always kick the can and will continue to do so. Obama has no give as of yet.

No doubt this is a political chess game setting up the next election cycles. In reality we know neither party will fix the debt.

If the Tea Party wasn't full of a bunch of radical religious nuts, they would grow and take over.

[Oberon]

The most annoying thing is that one countries SNAFU is going to screw with half the planets economy. Eh, well, that's how it goes.
The actual default will fall between Thursday and the 1st November, so it wouldn't be immediately on Thursday, but the dominos would begin to fall.
However, from what rumours I'm hearing coming out of Washington, the Republicans are close to collapse, and when that happens, boy is the mud going to be slung between the Tea Party types and the rest of the GOP.

What makes me mad is the media saying America voted for Obamacare. Just compare what Obamacare was during the election and what it is now. America didn't vote for all the exemptions, taxes, lies and cost increases.

Can you run through any amendments to the bill since the election?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Maybe in order to understand politics, we have to look at the word itself: "Politics". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "Poli" and "tics". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is politics.

Greek in origin. Affairs of the cities, or something like that.

Polis means city, or city-state.

Originally Posted by Oberon

The most annoying thing is that one countries SNAFU is going to screw with half the planets economy. Eh, well, that's how it goes.

Globalism for teh lose?

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Armistead

The problem is Obamacare will be a big economic disaster for the US in it's present form. The other problem is we always kick the can and will continue to do so. Obama has no give as of yet.

No doubt this is a political chess game setting up the next election cycles. In reality we know neither party will fix the debt.

If the Tea Party wasn't full of a bunch of radical religious nuts, they would grow and take over.

Well, If neither party will fix the debt, the debt will fix them instead.
Thats what we could be seeing this week, I don't know.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Globalism for teh lose?

It does seem to have gotten out of hand, I mean I'm all for increased co-operation between countries, but total reliance on other nations for your existence in both financial and other means, it's dangerous.
But, I guess all of our nations have outgrown the nationalist self-state. Could the UK or US switch to a self-sustaining food system without either a) screwing up food prices or b) screwing up the economy?

I doubt it, sadly.


EDIT: As it comes down to this current situation, as has already been said, this is just a battlefield for the mid-terms, a rather risky game of chicken is being played with neither the Dems or the Reps wanting to blink but neither wanting to default. If the Dems blink first then they'll have their flagship (and only) program be chipped at by the GOP (because there's no way that they will settle with just one alteration) and if the GOP blinks first then their party will temporarily self-destruct as the infighting begins, and if neither blink then they're both going to be lynched by the American public when the US economy hits the default.
Given how visible and vocal the rifts in the GOP are, I'd say that the Dems are pretty sure that they're holding the winning cards, which is one of the reasons they're not compromising, they know that if they can hold on, they might just break the GOP.
It's all pretty ballsy stuff, and if the world economy wasn't riding on it would be interesting for all the right reasons, but at the moment it just looks like two parties arguing as the boat moves towards the waterfall...

[Oberon]

Looks like a deal is close to being finalised, and Cruz has said that he won't block it, so the can will be kicked down the road until next year at least. However the likelihood of default has been reduced unless something goes very wrong in voting, but given that Cruz has given his blessing to it, then it's likely to roll through just fine, just in time...as always.