Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Gorpet]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Republicans' manouvering is irresponsible - and against America's very own national interest.

https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/ukraine-k..._x_tr_pto=wapp


Of course, European behavior also raises questions. But the current American failure is at least as serious, in my opinion even more so. Without weapons aid from the USA, nothing would work in Ukraine. Nothing at all. Europe will not be able to replace American supplies in terms of production capacity for many years to come - even if it wanted to. A defeat in Ukraine will cost Europe first - but also America woudl need to change its flows of geopoliticla ressources and would need to invest to contain the consequences - and much more then than what the funding of the running war now costs. The US economy is far too internationally intertwined these days for isolationism to be a viable foreign policy option.

Are you crazy? really how in the hell can the United States keep supplying Europe. And every other socialist welfare country in Europe with weapons and a way to defend themselves.Bitch it's time for Europe to grow up. And step up we Americans are getting tired of paying the bill.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Thanks for the Information, Bilge Rat. It's hard to get an accurate picture of the happenings in the Ukraine. It seems both Russia and the Ukraine are using a strategy of " air denial." The environment there is too dangerous for aircraft from either side with regards to SAM missiles. Most Russian aircraft appear to be deploying long range Air to Surface missile against Ukraine well within the own borders. I think it's for this reason it was felt that F-16 fighters given to the Ukraine would have a limited utility unless they themselves deployed long range weapons outside of contested areas where it is relatively safe.

Tom Cooper, whose blog I linked to above, is a military aviation expert. He has been providing a running commentary on the air war over Ukraine.

In a nutshell, both sides have massive SAM defences on their sides of the front lines. Any plane which tries to cross the front lines will likely be shot down. so yes, RUS AC will launch from their own sides. We all hear about the strikes on UKR civilian targets, but vast majority of bombs are dropped on UKR troops in the front lines. By launching from high altitude and using "lofting" (i.e. dive toss), RUS AC can launch dumb bombs up to 70 km away.

This of course is a big problem for UKR since they do not have air superiority over their own frontlines which is limiting their offensive operations. They would need to move their SAM defences forward, but SAM sites are very vulnerable and of course, UKR SAM sites are high priority targets for RUS.

on the F16, yes, the planes themselves are not as important as what weapons they will carry.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Russia stole in the early stages of the war a three digit number of Western airliners that at that time where docked at Robbers airports.


The cease fire hinted at by Putin, is a manouver that aims at making Ukraine - that without doubt will reject it at this stage and thes ecoinditions - look like the bad guy wanting to war-monger. Only fools take this move as a sign of that Putin has changed his goals and indeed wants peace. He wants consolidation of his forces at best - and then continue by surprise, at a time of his choice. We saw such manouvers by him before, since 2014.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

Good question is it another Russian propaganda trick ?



Markus

[Exocet25fr]

[Dargo]

For propaganda this is a big victory, in reality they captured the remaining 200 meters of ruins (the town has been reduced to rubble in the 22 months since Russia’s invasion). After Bakhmut, the military commanders promised a further offensive (victory) this is only crawling with enormous losses Ukraine still holds all fronts and can hold this a long time.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

For propaganda this is a big victory, in reality they captured the remaining 200 meters of ruins (the town has been reduced to rubble in the 22 months since Russia’s invasion). After Bakhmut, the military commanders promised a further offensive (victory) this is only crawling with enormous losses Ukraine still holds all fronts and can hold this a long time.

For those who are against Ukraine or support Russia this is a victory. Doesn't matter how many thousand soldiers Russia has lost-it's a victory.
If it's a big one seen from the propaganda perspective I can't say

Thinking about it. Every single victory how small it may be, has to be multiplied up to a huge victory in their propaganda.

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

For those who are against Ukraine or support Russia this is a victory. Doesn't matter how many thousand soldiers Russia has lost-it's a victory.
If it's a big one seen from the propaganda perspective I can't say

Thinking about it. Every single victory how small it may be, has to be multiplied up to a huge victory in their propaganda.

Markus

yeah in Russia but the cost is high even for Russia specially when you lose 5 jets in the last 5 days that lose is more than a pile of rubble.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

yeah in Russia but the cost is high even for Russia specially when you lose 5 jets in the last 5 days that lose is more than a pile of rubble.

True and there are those who wonder if the first couple of F16 has arrived and being used.

Saw a picture on a video about Ukraine already got some F16.

Edit
found the video

End edit

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

True and there are those who wonder if the first couple of F16 has arrived and being used.

Saw a picture on a video about Ukraine already got some F16.

Edit
found the video

End edit

Markus

Four Su-34 and one Su-30SM, costing over US $250 Million. There are reports of possibly another Russian aircraft being possibly shot down. A Su-35 allegedly based at Yeysk, Krasnodar region has reportedly not returned to base after taking off and flying towards Ukraine. Russian channels claim their Su-34 over the Black Sea was shot down by a NATO-Ukrainian F-16. But wait, I thought Russia had destroyed all the F16s? And I thought F16s wouldn't matter because Russian Su-30 series are so superior. Also cost is more in terms of combat capability, fewer aircraft and fewer trained and experienced pilots. Do not think the F16 is the cause the “Ghost of Kiev” strikes again or some patriot battery at work.