[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled - Page 141

cgjimeneza · 03-21-10, 12:01 PM

damm... I wish to be that late in 42... my torpedoes only seem to be ballast (im playing by the book, dec 41, shooting with magnetic exploders and 10 ft below keel depth)... so nada amigo, cant seem to hit a thing and loving it

TMO rocks!

EDIT:
however, a small Hunter Killer grp of two watakabe DDs and an aux subchaser sank my boat in the luzon strait, I detected them by sound and went ahead, but they did hear me at over 3000 yds while at 1/3rd ahead and PD.... managed to sink one DD (with a mk-10) but the other two killed me after about 1 hr of realtime evasion....

Keelbuster · 03-21-10, 05:13 PM

I started TMO 1.9 and was really getting into it. I started the early campaign, and went out looking for action. Then I found a convoy - a couple ships with a couple escorts, worked ahead and made my approach. It's hard to say how far from the intercept point i was (still getting used to the american distance units), but by SH3 standards it was a good approach. I was probably 5 NM away or so, running at ahead standard at PD. When they started to getting closer, I went to ahead 1/3 (but not silent, but at that distance it shouldn't matter). Amazingly, the escorts must have heard my run at ahead standard (while they basically dots on the horizon) and came running straight for me. Seeing that I had been detected, I pulled my tactic from SH3 which is to 'clear the datum' with a flank run while they are moving very fast (and deaf) and then go silent and let them search in the hole i just left. Yet, when they got close, they were still heading right at me (suggesting that they were _not_ deaf when traveling very fast). They proceeded to detect me at silent running/PD. Then they start pinging me. They couldn't seem to hit anything, but away they went pinging. This my first patrol of the war. Did the allies even have ASDIC in '41? I sortof doubt that the japs did. But I'm not sure. This kinda of AI sensor behaviour is akin to the kind of allied AI you get in GWX 3.0 in 1944.

I guess what I'm asking is - can I expect this kind of uber DD action from TMO or did I just happen to come across the two freaky genius jap dds that were terrorizing the pacific in '41? I didn't see anything in the FAQ about uber DDs, and when I searched no one else seemed bothered about it. But I feel like it's a bit weird to have the only safe approach being to sit at like 250 ft all stop, silent and wait for them to drive over you. Typically I would expect that at distances of several miles, you could make an approach at PD at ahead standard without detection. By way of comparison, in RFB, the same approach technique goes undetected in 41. I'm just wondering if the uber sensors are an intended feature of TMO; if so, maybe I'd be more happy with RFB?

03-21-10, 06:03 PM

Okay I answered my own question. If I read the release notes right, Ducimus took SCAF out but he did fix the mast heights, so as long as you stadimeter to the highest point on the ship you should get correct ranges? That's fine with me my problem with the exclusion of SCAF was that I wasn't sure if I still needed to measure to the highest funnel, or the mast, or whatever (the red lines helped tell you what you were supposed to measure) but with the new method as long as you measure to the highest point of the ship, be it funnel, mast, or flag, then you're good to go.

My last question, does anyone here think the water is way too clear? I understand the part about being able to see the sub really deep from above, but in TMO 1.9 you can see the sub FAR too easily from the side as well. And, the transition from being visible to invisible from the side is way too sharp. If you look at the right angle, the front of the conning tower is visible plain as day through crystal clear water, but the rear of the conning tower dissapears into the water. That's too sharp of a transition. IMO it just does not look natural. I know there must be parts of the ocean that are actually this clear, but I think for most scenarios it is not accurate at all. I have never seen any photos depicting what is shown in the game. My old TMO1.7 did not have water this clear, and looked a lot better IMO. Also I tried RE4 out as well and they have god a very good balance of being visible from the air even when deep and providing a realistic amount of fade-away as you look from an angle or as you get deeper.

I want to change it out for a different set of water effects but am concerned about the effect it has on contact detection (friendly or foe). I am willing to accept some degradation of planes' ability to see you (would help make things a bit more fun too as I am not a pro skipper) in tradeoff for some more eye-candy. What exactly "breaks" when you swap in RE4 into TMO? I am guessing that since your sub becomes harder to see from above the water, it means that the AI aircraft will not spot you as often when you dive? But I am just guessing on that because I don't know much about the in-depth mechanics of contact detection. Is it possible just to import the "water shader" portion of RE4 which defines the underwater visibility as opposed to the whole package (textures, fog, etc), in order to minimize the impact?

I know it sounds like complaining I'm not trying to do that (TMO is a brilliant work!) but just trying to "flavor" it to taste

Norman

danurve · 03-22-10, 09:31 AM

Keelbuster; I have found by comming in somewhat parellel to the lead escort just outside of it's inner detection cone and making an attack just before one of the outter escorts can detect me works well, even in mildly calm seas. Just sank two liners escorted by 4 -DD's and I escaped unscathed. Did you have your scope fully extended or radar antenna up? I go to Silent Running and make sure just under 1 knot. Damn planes seem more of a threat then the escorts.

Keelbuster · 03-22-10, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danurve

Keelbuster; I have found by comming in somewhat parellel to the lead escort just outside of it's inner detection cone and making an attack just before one of the outter escorts can detect me works well, even in mildly calm seas. Just sank two liners escorted by 4 -DD's and I escaped unscathed. Did you have your scope fully extended or radar antenna up? I go to Silent Running and make sure just under 1 knot. Damn planes seem more of a threat then the escorts.

I think I was being a bit balsy, thinking that it was early war and all. I came in pretty fast at PD to close the distance (initially Flank, then ahead standard, then ahead 2/3). Thing is, they detected me from a long long way away, by hydrophone i guess - reminds me of the super-sensitive DDs in GWX3.0 around 1944. The thing that bothered me was the sonar - I never expected to hear it from jap DDs in '41. On the other hand, I can sympathize with the need for danger; if the DDs were deaf, it would be a turkey shoot. I think I'll give TMO another shot. I'm playing RFB to get a feel of it now, but I liked the interface better with TMO. Last night in my second RFB patrol I intercepted a large convoy in like 130ft of water. I hit two ships, and had an escort drive right over me without detecting me. I suspect that the same scenario in TMO would have played out a _lot_ differently. And yes, the planes in TMO were a serious pain - I had to adopt the strategy I used in SH3 around late '41 in Biscay - only run on the surface at night. Worked like a charm in TMO, '41, and when I got SD radar, I could usually crash dive in time.

Anybody know if you can switch supermods (RFB + RSRD -> TMO + RSRD or vice versa) when in port?

Ducimus · 03-22-10, 01:24 PM

If the escorts are giving you issues. go to the sim.cfg and in the hydrophones section, change:
Noise factor=0.25
to say.... 0.5

Keelbuster · 03-22-10, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If the escorts are giving you issues. go to the sim.cfg and in the hydrophones section, change:
Noise factor=0.25
to say.... 0.5

Thanks for the tweak,

KB

billko · 03-22-10, 03:44 PM

Thanks!

TH0R · 03-22-10, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keelbuster

Anybody know if you can switch supermods (RFB + RSRD -> TMO + RSRD or vice versa) when in port?

I wouldn't recommend that. I did it when I first started playing, switched to TMO for one patrol and then went back to RFB. Had some bugs later on.

Best to do a clean install if you want to switch.

Ducimus · 03-22-10, 05:01 PM

Just FYI, some of you may have noticed this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/announcement.php?f=202

TMO will include this model next update. I have some work to do to it to adapt it to TMO so it runs how the current "pseudo narwhal" does, just with the proper 3d model this time.

I have no ETA, ive been strapped down helping luke with RUB for Sh5, and im going camping this week starting wednesday. Im also waiting to see what vickers03 does for the S boat interior. All told i may not have the next update ready for another month or so.

And to reiterate...

If the escorts are giving you issues, the easiest way to rachet down the difficulty is to go to the sim.cfg and in the hydrophones section, change:

Noise factor=0.25 to 0.5 or higher.

Stock value is 1 if i remember correctly.

banjo · 03-23-10, 10:30 AM

At last! A way to tone down the escorts! I can go back to TMO.

Sub Sailor · 03-23-10, 01:25 PM

I have TMO 1.9 and the Patch 2010. Yesterday I loaded the Max Otics which according to my splash screen it now shows TMO Overhaul and Max Optics IV, so I guess it's right. The simulation works, I have completed one Mission and I am on #2 an agent insertion which I have completed and now looking for targets. My boat is a Sargo Class "Saury", so here is my question or problem. When I launch the game it loads so far according to the loading bar on the splash screen, about 75% and then Beep and it stops until I hit escape and it goes on and loads; I load mission and everything works as far as I can tell. Is that pause, freeze, normal? I have also noted that during a mission if I save-I always save after completing an objective or sink a ship I have to hit return to course before the next way point otherwise I wander off course until I hit return to course, Which I did not have to do before I istalled Max Optics.
Have I messed up or am I ok.

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

TheBeast · 03-23-10, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sub Sailor

When I launch the game it loads so far according to the loading bar on the splash screen, about 75% and then Beep and it stops until I hit escape and it goes on and loads; I load mission and everything works as far as I can tell. Is that pause, freeze, normal?

Sounds like you are missing a file... Do you get a small pop-up window when your game beeps and pauses?

If so, the pop-up window tells you what file(s) the game can not find. If you run in Windowed Mode, the pop-up can be be viewed by selecting the pop-up on your taskbar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sub Sailor

I have also noted that during a mission if I save-I always save after completing an objective or sink a ship I have to hit return to course before the next way point otherwise I wander off course until I hit return to course, Which I did not have to do before I istalled Max Optics.
Have I messed up or am I ok.

I have always had to use "Return to course" when reloading a American Carreer save game myself. So not really sure about that issue.

-TheBeast

cgjimeneza · 03-23-10, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjo

At last! A way to tone down the escorts! I can go back to TMO.

good!, I will implement that.. any one has a long enough winch to raise poor old Porpoise from the bottom of Luzon Strait? shouldnt be too rusty, it was sunk only 4 days ago...

Ducimus · 03-23-10, 07:31 PM

I think i'll tone the AI hydrophones down a spit next update.

SH4 will be getting my full attention starting next week. Hopefully starting sunday. Im going camping tommrrow, and won't be back tell saturday.

It occurs to me that one of the beautiful things about SH4, is its two sim's in one. I'd really like to flesh out the uboat side, but i question if i have the energy. I don't think i do, because it's all i can do to finish whats currently on my plate.

03-21-10, 12:01 PM	#2101
cgjimeneza Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 527 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	your patrol damm... I wish to be that late in 42... my torpedoes only seem to be ballast (im playing by the book, dec 41, shooting with magnetic exploders and 10 ft below keel depth)... so nada amigo, cant seem to hit a thing and loving it TMO rocks! EDIT: however, a small Hunter Killer grp of two watakabe DDs and an aux subchaser sank my boat in the luzon strait, I detected them by sound and went ahead, but they did hear me at over 3000 yds while at 1/3rd ahead and PD.... managed to sink one DD (with a mk-10) but the other two killed me after about 1 hr of realtime evasion.... __________________ Pacific Thunder Campaing VIII-Retired www.subsowespac.org "Left on their own, engineers can be dangerous" Last edited by cgjimeneza; 03-21-10 at 09:00 PM.

03-21-10, 05:13 PM	#2102
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I started TMO 1.9 and was really getting into it. I started the early campaign, and went out looking for action. Then I found a convoy - a couple ships with a couple escorts, worked ahead and made my approach. It's hard to say how far from the intercept point i was (still getting used to the american distance units), but by SH3 standards it was a good approach. I was probably 5 NM away or so, running at ahead standard at PD. When they started to getting closer, I went to ahead 1/3 (but not silent, but at that distance it shouldn't matter). Amazingly, the escorts must have heard my run at ahead standard (while they basically dots on the horizon) and came running straight for me. Seeing that I had been detected, I pulled my tactic from SH3 which is to 'clear the datum' with a flank run while they are moving very fast (and deaf) and then go silent and let them search in the hole i just left. Yet, when they got close, they were still heading right at me (suggesting that they were _not_ deaf when traveling very fast). They proceeded to detect me at silent running/PD. Then they start pinging me. They couldn't seem to hit anything, but away they went pinging. This my first patrol of the war. Did the allies even have ASDIC in '41? I sortof doubt that the japs did. But I'm not sure. This kinda of AI sensor behaviour is akin to the kind of allied AI you get in GWX 3.0 in 1944. I guess what I'm asking is - can I expect this kind of uber DD action from TMO or did I just happen to come across the two freaky genius jap dds that were terrorizing the pacific in '41? I didn't see anything in the FAQ about uber DDs, and when I searched no one else seemed bothered about it. But I feel like it's a bit weird to have the only safe approach being to sit at like 250 ft all stop, silent and wait for them to drive over you. Typically I would expect that at distances of several miles, you could make an approach at PD at ahead standard without detection. By way of comparison, in RFB, the same approach technique goes undetected in 41. I'm just wondering if the uber sensors are an intended feature of TMO; if so, maybe I'd be more happy with RFB? __________________

03-22-10, 09:31 AM	#2104
danurve The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 1,481 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 3	Keelbuster; I have found by comming in somewhat parellel to the lead escort just outside of it's inner detection cone and making an attack just before one of the outter escorts can detect me works well, even in mildly calm seas. Just sank two liners escorted by 4 -DD's and I escaped unscathed. Did you have your scope fully extended or radar antenna up? I go to Silent Running and make sure just under 1 knot. Damn planes seem more of a threat then the escorts. __________________

03-22-10, 03:44 PM	#2108
billko 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 275 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 2	SH4Speech - does anyone have CSV files that work with TMO 1.9? Thanks! __________________ Damage Control 1.1 - LeoVampire Edition - Can you trust the experience of your crew to inform you of how deep you can really dive?

03-23-10, 01:25 PM	#2112
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Max Optics & SCAF I have TMO 1.9 and the Patch 2010. Yesterday I loaded the Max Otics which according to my splash screen it now shows TMO Overhaul and Max Optics IV, so I guess it's right. The simulation works, I have completed one Mission and I am on #2 an agent insertion which I have completed and now looking for targets. My boat is a Sargo Class "Saury", so here is my question or problem. When I launch the game it loads so far according to the loading bar on the splash screen, about 75% and then Beep and it stops until I hit escape and it goes on and loads; I load mission and everything works as far as I can tell. Is that pause, freeze, normal? I have also noted that during a mission if I save-I always save after completing an objective or sink a ship I have to hit return to course before the next way point otherwise I wander off course until I hit return to course, Which I did not have to do before I istalled Max Optics. Have I messed up or am I ok. Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

03-21-10, 06:03 PM	#2103
Ruahrc Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Okay I answered my own question. If I read the release notes right, Ducimus took SCAF out but he did fix the mast heights, so as long as you stadimeter to the highest point on the ship you should get correct ranges? That's fine with me my problem with the exclusion of SCAF was that I wasn't sure if I still needed to measure to the highest funnel, or the mast, or whatever (the red lines helped tell you what you were supposed to measure) but with the new method as long as you measure to the highest point of the ship, be it funnel, mast, or flag, then you're good to go. My last question, does anyone here think the water is way too clear? I understand the part about being able to see the sub really deep from above, but in TMO 1.9 you can see the sub FAR too easily from the side as well. And, the transition from being visible to invisible from the side is way too sharp. If you look at the right angle, the front of the conning tower is visible plain as day through crystal clear water, but the rear of the conning tower dissapears into the water. That's too sharp of a transition. IMO it just does not look natural. I know there must be parts of the ocean that are actually this clear, but I think for most scenarios it is not accurate at all. I have never seen any photos depicting what is shown in the game. My old TMO1.7 did not have water this clear, and looked a lot better IMO. Also I tried RE4 out as well and they have god a very good balance of being visible from the air even when deep and providing a realistic amount of fade-away as you look from an angle or as you get deeper. I want to change it out for a different set of water effects but am concerned about the effect it has on contact detection (friendly or foe). I am willing to accept some degradation of planes' ability to see you (would help make things a bit more fun too as I am not a pro skipper) in tradeoff for some more eye-candy. What exactly "breaks" when you swap in RE4 into TMO? I am guessing that since your sub becomes harder to see from above the water, it means that the AI aircraft will not spot you as often when you dive? But I am just guessing on that because I don't know much about the in-depth mechanics of contact detection. Is it possible just to import the "water shader" portion of RE4 which defines the underwater visibility as opposed to the whole package (textures, fog, etc), in order to minimize the impact? I know it sounds like complaining I'm not trying to do that (TMO is a brilliant work!) but just trying to "flavor" it to taste Norman

03-22-10, 01:24 PM	#2106
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	If the escorts are giving you issues. go to the sim.cfg and in the hydrophones section, change: Noise factor=0.25 to say.... 0.5

03-22-10, 05:01 PM	#2110
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Just FYI, some of you may have noticed this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/announcement.php?f=202 TMO will include this model next update. I have some work to do to it to adapt it to TMO so it runs how the current "pseudo narwhal" does, just with the proper 3d model this time. I have no ETA, ive been strapped down helping luke with RUB for Sh5, and im going camping this week starting wednesday. Im also waiting to see what vickers03 does for the S boat interior. All told i may not have the next update ready for another month or so. And to reiterate... If the escorts are giving you issues, the easiest way to rachet down the difficulty is to go to the sim.cfg and in the hydrophones section, change: Noise factor=0.25 to 0.5 or higher. Stock value is 1 if i remember correctly.

03-23-10, 10:30 AM	#2111
banjo Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 762 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	At last! A way to tone down the escorts! I can go back to TMO.

03-23-10, 07:31 PM	#2115
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I think i'll tone the AI hydrophones down a spit next update. SH4 will be getting my full attention starting next week. Hopefully starting sunday. Im going camping tommrrow, and won't be back tell saturday. It occurs to me that one of the beautiful things about SH4, is its two sim's in one. I'd really like to flesh out the uboat side, but i question if i have the energy. I don't think i do, because it's all i can do to finish whats currently on my plate.