Terrorist attack in Paris, France

Originally Posted by Oberon

That makes sense, I mean Hollande doesn't strike me as the type that would try anything dodgy, but...well...politicians.

He is the political leader of a country.
So yes, exactly: Politicians.

By now (age 31) I am convinced that they are all soulless.
Some are just better actors (liars) than others.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Rockstar makes a good point and one that I'm sure I've mentioned before, or if I haven't then I should have done. You're far more likely to die in a car accident than through an act of terror. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should be lax in our vigilance, but equally we should overreact and panic in response to an individual act of terror.

These terrorists don't have much real power, but in a world of mass and social media, they can leverage it all out of proportion to their numbers.

Not to minimize the attacks this week, but in the end they can't bring down world civilization. These losers will always be outnumbered. About the best they can hope is to create friction and fear and in that they are certainly succeeding.

The new networks this week has been bombarding us with terrorist portraits. Security cam clips of the terrorist attacks and re-broadcasts of terrorist threat videos, articles from terrorist magazines, even a documentary about ISIS schools educating toddler-terrorists. And then at the same time showing us a vast host of Syrian refugees headed this way.

Plus, is something eerie odd about watching Russia expend expensive cruise missiles on a war-torn patch of desert which has the industrial-economic foot print probably one tenth of what the Axis satellite of Slovakia had in WW2. And this after months of the US bombing said patch right and left

But fair or not, it's happening. And unless some modern day Lawrence of Arabia can gather a Muslim Army to lead and win the fight against ISIS, it looks like we're going to be committing non-Muslim ground troops to yet another war in the Middle East, which we will win. However, it is likely to have the ultimate effect of recruiting yet another generation of angry jihadists.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

These terrorists don't have much real power, but in a world of mass and social media, they can leverage it all out of proportion to their numbers.

Their biggest weapons are the target nation politicians, either rulling faction abusing the fear to force even more power to himself or an oposition faction gathering cheap points.

And mostly, as always, I blame the media. Insteading of giving us some assurance, some sense of unity and facts about the real strength of those cells, they sell us fear. it's like my generation will be one of the most fearfull and paranoid ever. Jumping at shadows and electing despots everytime an unpleasant wind blows.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

These terrorists don't have much real power, but in a world of mass and social media, they can leverage it all out of proportion to their numbers.

Not to minimize the attacks this week, but in the end they can't bring down world civilization. These losers will always be outnumbered. About the best they can hope is to create friction and fear and in that they are certainly succeeding.

The new networks this week has been bombarding us with terrorist portraits. Security cam clips of the terrorist attacks and re-broadcasts of terrorist threat videos, articles from terrorist magazines, even a documentary about ISIS schools educating toddler-terrorists. And then at the same time showing us a vast host of Syrian refugees headed this way.

Plus, is something eerie odd about watching Russia expend expensive cruise missiles on a war-torn patch of desert which has the industrial-economic foot print probably one tenth of what the Axis satellite of Slovakia had in WW2. And this after months of the US bombing said patch right and left

But fair or not, it's happening. And unless some modern day Lawrence of Arabia can gather a Muslim Army to lead and win the fight against ISIS, it looks like we're going to be committing non-Muslim ground troops to yet another war in the Middle East, which we will win. However, it is likely to have the ultimate effect of recruiting yet another generation of angry jihadists.

Great post

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

These terrorists don't have much real power...

I think it would be fair to add..not yet.

But fair or not, it's happening. And unless some modern day Lawrence of Arabia can gather a Muslim Army to lead and win the fight against ISIS, it looks like we're going to be committing non-Muslim ground troops to yet another war in the Middle East, which we will win. However, it is likely to have the ultimate effect of recruiting yet another generation of angry jihadists.

Indeed. I think it's time for a new strategy.

From a National Post article January 2015 by Loretta Napoleoni.

The success of the Islamic State forces us to a moment of reckoning. It is time to declare the failure of counter-terrorism to prevent the advent of the Caliphate, and it is time to face our responsibilities. The world is in need of a new approach to stopping this hostile political entity, especially now as it redraws, in blood, the borders of the Middle East. Such a strategy cannot be produced by denying the obvious fact that the genesis of the Caliphate is deeply intertwined with decades of Western politics and interventions in the Middle East.

If the Islamic State succeeds in building one nation across Iraq and Syria, the threat posed by this achievement will go well beyond the political landscape of these two nations. For the first time in modern history, an armed organization will have fulfilled the final goal of terrorism: to create its own state on the ashes of existing nations, not through a revolution, as happened in Iran, but through a traditional war of conquest based upon terrorist tactics. If it does so, the Islamic State will have become the new model of terrorism.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Rockstar makes a good point and one that I'm sure I've mentioned before, or if I haven't then I should have done. You're far more likely to die in a car accident than through an act of terror. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should be lax in our vigilance, but equally we should overreact and panic in response to an individual act of terror.
I must admit, I don't understand the decision of the French parliament to extend the state of emergency for another three months, other than to give increased powers to the police forces to act without judicial oversight. A month I could understand, or to the end of the year, so that Christmas and New Years are over...but up till February?
Probably just me, I just get a smidge of concern when governments bypass the judicial system, even if it's in the interest of 'dealing with terrorism', however such a thing is defined.

If you had 9/11 every year you would be still more likely to die in a car accident.
A lot is being done to prevent this.

EU let the situation to get out of control regarding Islamic extremism.
Your politicians refused to deal with the issue for too long , just being nice and tolerant or understanding will not help here to change the reality.
Not dealing with extremist , inflammatory mosques and preachers , not wanting to steer the pot doesn't work.
You can always try the Sweden's foreign minister approach blaming Israeli Palestinian conflict for what has happened in France...that should make sense about who is friend or who is foe.
This is the kind of nonsense that contributed to this situation.

You can pretend about how you have grown big pair of balls and how this whole issue is just media hysterical whining or fear mongering yet now you getting glimpse about what is going on and had been brewing in your backyard for years , it is quite serious.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by MH

You can pretend about how you have grown big pair of balls and how this whole issue is just media hysterical whining or fear mongering yet now you getting glimpse about what is going on and had been brewing in your backyard for years , it is quite serious.

And? You said so yourself, you're more likely to die in a car crash, so why get so excited about it?
Yes, take down the radical preachers, the extremists, I've never been against that, but the key matter is to make the cut as clean as possible. People like Skybird want to take a chainsaw to the problem, I prefer a scalpel. Cut out the rot but don't throw out the entire apple.

We've had the Irish problem for decades before this, and we coped with it without resorting to hysteria, we'll get by, providing our governments don't do something stupid like try to deport all Muslims, or go all Donald Trump and force Muslims to have identity cards and go on a register...heh, and have numbers tattooed on their arms no doubt.

EDIT: Oh, and before someone says 'The whole apply is rotten', look how many Parisians this guy manages to not explode.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Oberon

And? You said so yourself, you're more likely to die in a car crash, so why get so excited about it?
Yes, take down the radical preachers, the extremists, I've never been against that, but the key matter is to make the cut as clean as possible. People like Skybird want to take a chainsaw to the problem, I prefer a scalpel. Cut out the rot but don't throw out the entire apple.

We've had the Irish problem for decades before this, and we coped with it without resorting to hysteria, we'll get by, providing our governments don't do something stupid like try to deport all Muslims, or go all Donald Trump and force Muslims to have identity cards and go on a register...heh, and have numbers tattooed on their arms no doubt.

Well...well...numbers...ok ok

It is going to be long never ending medical procedure... deal with something in one place something new pops out in other....
As I said before with all those emigrants and refugees you are importing ME problems into your backyard.

For some it may be a big issue ... it took Europe long time to become liberal relatively atheist democracy with more or less peaceful culture across the board.
The myth that Europeans created for themselves about them being so superior that every Muslim will simply have to integrate because it is in his best interest simply doesn't work.
The gethos are getting bigger...so you blame infrastructure , lack of investments , your not being nice enough but you don't get it that you are being used , it is really cultural issue.
Cultural issue is something Europeans are scared to talk and dance circles around it, yet at the end of the day what what it is.

So people should know that by letting all the masses of people from middle east , the rate of car accidents may dramatically increase.
Big chunks of some of the cities may turn into Muslim zones policed... or not lol.
Crime will rise , religion cultural related domestic violence will have to be dealt with...impossible lol... welfare will be in big demand and so on.

If people do accept it then it is all cool , for better or worse.
Yet nobody really asks them do they.

[Oberon]

I guess we'll see, people have been predicting the end of Europe for decades, everyone thought we'd have another 9/11 within a decade of the first, or that someone would have detonated a suitcase nuke before 2011 was done, or we'd be at war with China or something.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I guess we'll see, people have been predicting the end of Europe for decades, everyone thought we'd have another 9/11 within a decade of the first, or that someone would have detonated a suitcase nuke before 2011 was done, or we'd be at war with China or something.

I think it goes way back to 1529 and the first siege of Wien.

But then even further back when the Mongols were invading from the east.

And then the huns

And Persians threatening to destroy the Greek states and march up the Balkans

[MH]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I guess we'll see, people have been predicting the end of Europe for decades, everyone thought we'd have another 9/11 within a decade of the first, or that someone would have detonated a suitcase nuke before 2011 was done, or we'd be at war with China or something.

Who is talking about end of Europe here.?
It is about spiced up Europe lol

think it goes way back to 1529 and the first siege of Wien.

But then even further back when the Mongols were invading from the east.

And then the huns

And Persians threatening to destroy the Greek states and march up the Balkans

[Oberon]

Spices? Well, Europe knows all about spices, we fought wars over the stuff.

[Oberon]

Meanwhile in Belgium, reports indicate that the search for Salah Abdeslam may have ended, for today at least, but the lockdown of Brussels city will continue tomorrow with schools and universities being closed. NATO and the EU Commission will open (under heavy guard no doubt) but other events and places are unknown at this time.
On the internet, twitter users have been asked not to tweet information regarding events on the ground, although that has not stopped the BBC from accidentally leaking information regarding blockades (A Bendy bus with the advert "What a wonderful world #not [I'm not joking] on the side was used to block a street in Brussels at one point amid reports of police activity in the area), so in an attempt to bury any potentially security risking tweets in the #BrusselsLockdown tag, users have been posting pictures of cats.
There will be a press conference in around an hour, twitter has already posted a picture of who will be holding the conference...

[Rockstar]

Cultural issue is something Europeans are scared to talk and dance circles around it ...

[Oberon]

Well, we've had a bit more time to talk about it, and since it changes all the time, getting worked up about another change really isn't worth it.