Malaysian Airlines MH317 - Page 14

Skybird · 08-18-14, 03:52 PM

Considering how the US abused Russian good will - and weakness! - in the Yeltzin years, I would say that the US has lost the right to ride the moral high horse. When it comes boosting its foreign political goals, it is not one bit better or less unscrupulous than Moscow or Kiew.

Politics knows no morals. Only the mechanisms of power. Machiavelli was the first to see and describe that uncomproised, and with precisoion that is still mactual today. He described the ways the game is being played - He did not assess the morality of this or that method. This fine difference is that gets often misunderstood.

TarJak · 08-18-14, 03:59 PM

Whoosh

Skybird · 09-06-14, 12:58 PM

German media report today that the Dutch Safty Board heading the examination of the incident and authoring of the reports, has announced now that they will not publish the content of the cockpit voice recordings.

A draft report is about to be released, but they said that that report will not publish important details . The final report now is said to be published within a year - but they have already said that in that report they too will refuse to publish any information that could accuse anyone.

Dear Dutch Safety Board - may I suggest you better skip those reports alltogether and instead use the paper for it to produce some rolls of toilet paper, branded Anal Royal, maybe?

Moscow's reaction came promptly, accusing the Dutch of trying to disguise the way in which events unfolded, and claiming that Russian defence ministry possesses radar data from Russian airspace control showing Ukrainian combat airplanes in close vicinity to the Malaysian airplane.

Only one thing is clear. The West would love to use any smoking gun there is to discredit Russia. That it refuses to do so with the shooting down of MH17, cannot be explained with diplomatic hesitation or concerns to spill oil into the fire - the fire already is there, obviously. Sometimes the easiest explanation is most likely the true one. And the easiest explanation is that all information they have shows that it was not the Russians or separatists. Which narrows the number of suspects to just one of originally three.

Catfish · 09-06-14, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I am shocked. Shocked, I say! that any country would covertly send weapons to other areas in order to further their national policy.
You would not catch the US doing something like that. That would be wrong.

True ..
however it depends who does it. We are the good, and the brave, forever, amen.

Skybird · 09-07-14, 09:52 AM

The German government formally answered a request by the party "Die Linke" and said that the German government knows of no information that would allow to safely conclude on the use of surface-to-air missiles in the shooting incident that brought down MH17. Regarding the data of two NATO AWACS planes over Romania and Poland, the German government officially replied that at the time the Malaysian plane was shot down it had left the radar detection range of the two AWACS planes since 30 minutes. On the request to inform parliament about foreign intelligence data and American satellite data, the German government refused to give any answer, citing secrecy demands.

German language:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/flug-...-a-990288.html

TarJak · 09-09-14, 04:54 AM

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-0...t-says/5730614

The report is released and it basically says nothing much that we don't already know. Our PM has opened his mouth and says something that is not likely to edify anyone.

Skybird · 09-09-14, 06:05 AM

Exactly as predicted. The report equals the droppings of a weasel. and how nicely they have maneuvered around certain things they do not want to say!

Hilarious, and a waste of time.

TarJak · 09-09-14, 08:44 AM

It is of course only the interim report. The final report will not be released for about another 12 months, when the media and most the sheeple will not remember the plane going down, let alone the fuss over who did it.

Skybird · 09-09-14, 09:00 AM

They already have announced that in that final report they will not say anything as well.

The only thing that has been confirmed by the report now is that the blackbox apparently has not been manipulated by separatists or anyone else.

At least that is what they claim.

Bilge_Rat · 09-09-14, 03:34 PM

interesting article trying to track down the Buk SAM system that shot down MH17:

Quote:

The Buk that was seen leaving the suspected area of the missile launch on the 17th of July most likely belonged to and was manned by Russian troops from the 53rd Kursk Brigade.

https://bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-e...ussian-troops/

Skybird · 09-09-14, 04:26 PM

Dear god, vague and grainy photos that remind of the evidence given for the existence of UFOs are claimed to be "evidence", while the crystalclear and razorsharp highres pics of pieces form the cockpiut wreckage are labelled as being linked to "conspiracy theory".

One thing is clear - if I would have been at holidays in that area and had my private little BUK system with me and then get surprised by the mass media telling me that somebody shot down an airliner, then I would have tried to get away and move out my BUK as silently and unseen as possible.

I hate it when people point fingers at me although I did nothing...

What did the German government officially declare in parliament just days ago? "The federal government has no knowledge on info of any kind that would indicate or allow the conclusion that a missiles was used for shooting down MH17". The Germans are one of the parties participating in the examination and research, and the authoring of that report.

I still do not say that the fighter-machine-gun theory is the truth. I only say that it is the better btheory epxlaining more contradicting issues that the missile theory leaves unadressed and unexplained. Since it is the more elegant theory, it has the higher probability to be true. And all that visual "evidence" given on what happened, and Russia here and missiles there - it has the quality of and is as untestable as the kind of photos that are usually given to prove the existence of UFOs.

Too thin in substance as that should be called "evidence".

Jimbuna · 09-10-14, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-0...t-says/5730614

The report is released and it basically says nothing much that we don't already know. Our PM has opened his mouth and says something that is not likely to edify anyone.

I'm not sure I'm able to believe anybody on any side now.

TarJak · 09-12-14, 05:42 PM

Will be interesting to see what the metallurgy says: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-1...gation/5741322

Oberon · 09-12-14, 06:19 PM

Probably:

But with metal instead of wood.

TarJak · 09-12-14, 07:02 PM

Maybe or hey that metal is not used in aircraft manufacture but is used in suitcases or weapons.

08-18-14, 03:52 PM	#196
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Considering how the US abused Russian good will - and weakness! - in the Yeltzin years, I would say that the US has lost the right to ride the moral high horse. When it comes boosting its foreign political goals, it is not one bit better or less unscrupulous than Moscow or Kiew. Politics knows no morals. Only the mechanisms of power. Machiavelli was the first to see and describe that uncomproised, and with precisoion that is still mactual today. He described the ways the game is being played - He did not assess the morality of this or that method. This fine difference is that gets often misunderstood. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-06-14, 12:58 PM	#198
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	German media report today that the Dutch Safty Board heading the examination of the incident and authoring of the reports, has announced now that they will not publish the content of the cockpit voice recordings. A draft report is about to be released, but they said that that report will not publish important details . The final report now is said to be published within a year - but they have already said that in that report they too will refuse to publish any information that could accuse anyone. Dear Dutch Safety Board - may I suggest you better skip those reports alltogether and instead use the paper for it to produce some rolls of toilet paper, branded Anal Royal, maybe? Moscow's reaction came promptly, accusing the Dutch of trying to disguise the way in which events unfolded, and claiming that Russian defence ministry possesses radar data from Russian airspace control showing Ukrainian combat airplanes in close vicinity to the Malaysian airplane. Only one thing is clear. The West would love to use any smoking gun there is to discredit Russia. That it refuses to do so with the shooting down of MH17, cannot be explained with diplomatic hesitation or concerns to spill oil into the fire - the fire already is there, obviously. Sometimes the easiest explanation is most likely the true one. And the easiest explanation is that all information they have shows that it was not the Russians or separatists. Which narrows the number of suspects to just one of originally three. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-07-14, 09:52 AM	#200
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The German government formally answered a request by the party "Die Linke" and said that *the German government knows of no information that would allow to safely conclude on the use of surface-to-air missiles* in the shooting incident that brought down MH17. Regarding the data of two NATO AWACS planes over Romania and Poland, the German government officially replied that at the time the Malaysian plane was shot down it had left the radar detection range of the two AWACS planes since 30 minutes. On the request to inform parliament about foreign intelligence data and American satellite data, the German government refused to give any answer, citing secrecy demands. German language: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/flug-...-a-990288.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-09-14, 06:05 AM	#202
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Exactly as predicted. The report equals the droppings of a weasel. and how nicely they have maneuvered around certain things they do not want to say! Hilarious, and a waste of time. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-09-14, 09:00 AM	#204
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	They already have announced that in that final report they will not say anything as well. The only thing that has been confirmed by the report now is that the blackbox apparently has not been manipulated by separatists or anyone else. At least that is what they claim. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-18-14, 03:59 PM	#197
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Whoosh

09-09-14, 04:54 AM	#201
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-0...t-says/5730614 The report is released and it basically says nothing much that we don't already know. Our PM has opened his mouth and says something that is not likely to edify anyone.

09-09-14, 08:44 AM	#203
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	It is of course only the interim report. The final report will not be released for about another 12 months, when the media and most the sheeple will not remember the plane going down, let alone the fuss over who did it.

09-09-14, 04:26 PM	#206
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,737 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Dear god, vague and grainy photos that remind of the evidence given for the existence of UFOs are claimed to be "evidence", while the crystalclear and razorsharp highres pics of pieces form the cockpiut wreckage are labelled as being linked to "conspiracy theory". One thing is clear - if I would have been at holidays in that area and had my private little BUK system with me and then get surprised by the mass media telling me that somebody shot down an airliner, then I would have tried to get away and move out my BUK as silently and unseen as possible. I hate it when people point fingers at me although I did nothing... What did the German government officially declare in parliament just days ago? "The federal government has no knowledge on info of any kind that would indicate or allow the conclusion that a missiles was used for shooting down MH17". The Germans are one of the parties participating in the examination and research, and the authoring of that report. I still do not say that the fighter-machine-gun theory is the truth. I only say that it is the better btheory epxlaining more contradicting issues that the missile theory leaves unadressed and unexplained. Since it is the more elegant theory, it has the higher probability to be true. And all that visual "evidence" given on what happened, and Russia here and missiles there - it has the quality of and is as untestable as the kind of photos that are usually given to prove the existence of UFOs. Too thin in substance as that should be called "evidence". __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-12-14, 05:42 PM	#208
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Will be interesting to see what the metallurgy says: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-1...gation/5741322

09-12-14, 06:19 PM	#209
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Probably: But with metal instead of wood.

09-12-14, 07:02 PM	#210
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Maybe or hey that metal is not used in aircraft manufacture but is used in suitcases or weapons.