Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE - Page 138

h.sie · 09-08-11, 02:25 AM

In the meantime (and with the kind help of Makman94) I was able to analyse the visibility/blindness problem. The visual sensors of the AI-Subs need a minimal amount of light even at midnight, and also certain sensor settings in Sim.cfg in order to work properly. Otherwise, the AI-Subs are blind and thus won't attack.

In MEP v3 (and I guess also in NYGM and other supermods/environments) all seems to work well, but not in these dark black nights of GWX3/16km - which I like so much.

So I see 2 options/solutions:

1) The better one: Create a special visual sensor for AI-Subs and "hack" it so that it will work even in dark GWX nights. Don't know if it's possible.

2) The unlovely one, if 1) does not work: Giving up the compatibility to all supermods / environments and link the wolfpack mod to a certain environment mod with certain sensor settings.

The future will show.

urfisch · 09-08-11, 03:17 AM

interesting, even its annoying. thanks for the update, h.sie!

Hitman · 09-08-11, 07:41 AM

You have another easy solution, which is to create a radar sensor for the AI uboats which also identifies friend or foe. That would allow them to shoot in the darkest nights with any mods, and nobody will know it's a radar. Besides, it is realistic that uboats attack at night seeing the enemy before they see them, and when escorts have radar receiver they also have radar so they would detect uboats anyway.

What I see of more interest is that you ensure if possible that the wolfpack is spawned only at night, because otherwise it would generate the ridiculous situation of uboats attacking at plain daylight in pack

h.sie · 09-08-11, 08:10 AM

@Hitman: Thanks. I'll try that idea!!! The question is: Do they use the radar sensor for shooting? I doubt.

I already programmed a simple, but "non-goofy" BDU-AI (in co-operation with LGN1). BDU will order to attack (and AI-Subs will be spawned) only during the night and without fog.

h.sie · 09-09-11, 02:02 AM

@Hitman: Radar or Hydrophone sensors are not used by the AI for firing. Good idea, but doesn't work.

But: I could locate the code that deals with visual sensors, so I am slightly non-pessimistic that I can program my own AI visual sensor that is required for the AI Subs to start an attack at medium distance even in darkest GWX nights.

We'll see.

Hitman · 09-09-11, 02:29 AM

Quote:

@Hitman: Radar or Hydrophone sensors are not used by the AI for firing. Good idea, but doesn't work.

That's really strange

IIRC from discussions long ago, the AI basically becomes aware of what is near it and where via the sensors as a global input, i.e. some sensors tell it some things, others don't (Like distance, identity, height, etc). And whatever sensor has the better range or chance of detection, becomes chief sensor (AI uses only one at a time).

You can add to the radar the property of identifying friend or foe IIRC, -which it of course currently doesn't have- but that requires to do it with Silent 3ditor in the sensors.dat file, which would in turn require adding a new special type of sensor and sadly having to do one for each supermod

However, in SH4 you can place a new sensors.dat file with a different name (F.e. AIUBoat_sensors.dat) and point in your unit to look for the sensor there. No idea if you can do that in SH3, however

Hitman · 09-09-11, 02:36 AM

Oh, and I forgot ...

Is it possible that you make the wolfpack units spawn only at night as suggested? While sometimes uboats would attack individually submerged at day a convoy, the chief idea of the wolfpack was to use the speed and maneuverability of the surfaced uboat at night, so that in 99% of cases if you are operating on a convoy that is followed by a wolfpack you would only see others attack at night (The day was spent by uboats mainly doing quick speed end arounds to reposition again in fron t of the convoy for the night).

If you can do that, the AI Uboats would not even need to be submerged as they would attack like in real life

(And besides, the AI doesn't identify them as submerged, so who cares)

Other interesting option would be that the triggered Uboat dissapears f.e. one hour after being spawned (This allows the unit to shoot at the convoy and maybe get sunk by counterfire or survive by dissapearing before escorts get her - simulates well chances of escaping after an attack)

SquareSteelBar · 09-09-11, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

...However, in SH4 you can place a new sensors.dat file with a different name (F.e. AIUBoat_sensors.dat) and point in your unit to look for the sensor there. No idea if you can do that in SH3, however

IIRC you can put into Library folder whatever you want; SH3 will look for it at least and if it's useable it will be used.
Otherwise mods like e.g. 'Lifeboats & Debris' etc. were not possible.

AFAIK h.sie is aware of that fact since he did it with Sergbuto's Wolfpack Mod v2.0 Reloaded. He placed new separate Shell2.* files into Library folder.

.

urfisch · 09-09-11, 05:41 AM

would love to have the skills to help in this...but i havent.

h.sie · 09-09-11, 05:15 PM

@Hitman: Yes, it is possible to spawn and attack only at night. It's already programmed. Stiebler told me that 99,9% of all wolfpack attacks occured during darkness. And yes, the AI-subs will attack in surfaced state, since their job is only to attack and irritate / deflect the escorts. Maybe I'll add a sound source to them, but only if necessary.

I know how to add new visual sensors, since for my private GWX version I have different visual sensors depending on ship type - as in NYGM. For that I used a different file hsieSensors.dat.

The problem is (no, was!) that none of these (unmodded) AI visual sensors work in GWX black night, they are all blind.

But I already programmed a working sensor hack, so that the AI-subs can see and fire over long distances even in black nights. That's what I need!

SquareSteelBar · 09-10-11, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

....That's what I need!

...we all need.

Hitman · 09-10-11, 03:46 AM

Brilliant H.Sie, just what the doctor ordered

h.sie · 09-10-11, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquareSteelBar

...we all need.

WE ALL is a little bit disproportionate....(laugh!)

Following the current discussions about HAHD, I see a tendency to other SH versions like SH4 and SH5, since these seem to have a better engine.

And even in the SH3 community, only a minority of people know and use "my" fixes (about 500 downloads of V15F). But I don't care, since I mainly do it for me (but share with others).

One person asked me to also switch to SH4 (sorry for not having answered yet), but I installed SH4+OPMonsoon three times and tried hard to like it, without success. This game totally lacks the depressing Uboat athmosphere SH3 has. This is an individual question of taste and cannot be discussed (and isn't intended to bash Lurkers hard job, which I respect!!). So I finally sold my SH4 DVD. I also cannot follow the discussion about this transparent SH4 water. On my ferry trip to Helgoland, I couldn't see more than 1 meter deep into the water. Very little transparency.

And because of DRM SH5 also is no option. So I'll stick on SH3 and try to add some nice features which I remember from Aces of the Deep.

Hitman · 09-10-11, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Following the current discussions about HAHD, I see a tendency to other SH versions like SH4 and SH5, since these seem to have a better engine.

And even in the SH3 community, only a minority of people know and use "my" fixes (about 500 downloads of V15F). But I don't care, since I mainly do it for me (but share with others).

I think SH3 still has more players and support than SH4, but the discussion about HAHD is related to the better modding platform, with more possibilities, which SH4 probably is.

Regarding downloads and use of your patches, in my opinion there are still many users a bit confused by the different releases of your patch, the options, Stiebler's additional work, etc, who fear they can cause harm to their install and prefer to see a more consolidated "final" version with all the blessings from everyone.

Personally, and despite supporting the idea of SH4 as a better platform due to more advanced features & engine plus solved bugs, the only thing I would like to see really really ironed out in SH3 is the time compression bug, where you will get no aircraft contacts at high time compression. For people like me -with less available time to play-, this is a killer bug, as high TC is a must and we can't use the game well without it being fixed.

But the wolfpacks you are preparing are really, really, luring me back into this game

Oh and I forgot, any comments about this suggestion I made?:

Quote:

Other interesting option would be that the triggered Uboat dissapears f.e. one hour after being spawned (This allows the unit to shoot at the convoy and maybe get sunk by counterfire or survive by dissapearing before escorts get her - simulates well chances of escaping after an attack)

SquareSteelBar · 09-10-11, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

...I also cannot follow the discussion about this transparent SH4 water. On my ferry trip to Helgoland, I couldn't see more than 1 meter deep into the water. Very little transparency...

In this regard the North Sea can't be representative. It is relative shallow and muddy...

However, I can live well without transparency in SH3.

09-08-11, 02:25 AM	#2056
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	In the meantime (and with the kind help of Makman94) I was able to analyse the visibility/blindness problem. The visual sensors of the AI-Subs need a minimal amount of light even at midnight, and also certain sensor settings in Sim.cfg in order to work properly. Otherwise, the AI-Subs are blind and thus won't attack. In MEP v3 (and I guess also in NYGM and other supermods/environments) all seems to work well, but not in these dark black nights of GWX3/16km - which I like so much. So I see 2 options/solutions: 1) The better one: Create a special visual sensor for AI-Subs and "hack" it so that it will work even in dark GWX nights. Don't know if it's possible. 2) The unlovely one, if 1) does not work: Giving up the compatibility to all supermods / environments and link the wolfpack mod to a certain environment mod with certain sensor settings. The future will show. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

09-08-11, 03:17 AM	#2057
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	interesting, even its annoying. thanks for the update, h.sie! __________________

09-08-11, 07:41 AM	#2058
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,111 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	You have another easy solution, which is to create a radar sensor for the AI uboats which also identifies friend or foe. That would allow them to shoot in the darkest nights with any mods, and nobody will know it's a radar. Besides, it is realistic that uboats attack at night seeing the enemy before they see them, and when escorts have radar receiver they also have radar so they would detect uboats anyway. What I see of more interest is that you ensure if possible that the wolfpack is spawned only at night, because otherwise it would generate the ridiculous situation of uboats attacking at plain daylight in pack __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

09-08-11, 08:10 AM	#2059
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Hitman: Thanks. I'll try that idea!!! The question is: Do they use the radar sensor for shooting? I doubt. I already programmed a simple, but "non-goofy" BDU-AI (in co-operation with LGN1). BDU will order to attack (and AI-Subs will be spawned) only during the night and without fog. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

09-09-11, 02:02 AM	#2060
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Hitman: Radar or Hydrophone sensors are not used by the AI for firing. Good idea, but doesn't work. But: I could locate the code that deals with visual sensors, so I am slightly non-pessimistic that I can program my own AI visual sensor that is required for the AI Subs to start an attack at medium distance even in darkest GWX nights. We'll see. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

09-09-11, 02:36 AM	#2062
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,111 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Oh, and I forgot ... Is it possible that you make the wolfpack units spawn only at night as suggested? While sometimes uboats would attack individually submerged at day a convoy, the chief idea of the wolfpack was to use the speed and maneuverability of the surfaced uboat at night, so that in 99% of cases if you are operating on a convoy that is followed by a wolfpack you would only see others attack at night (The day was spent by uboats mainly doing quick speed end arounds to reposition again in fron t of the convoy for the night). If you can do that, the AI Uboats would not even need to be submerged as they would attack like in real life (And besides, the AI doesn't identify them as submerged, so who cares) Other interesting option would be that the triggered Uboat dissapears f.e. one hour after being spawned (This allows the unit to shoot at the convoy and maybe get sunk by counterfire or survive by dissapearing before escorts get her - simulates well chances of escaping after an attack) __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

09-09-11, 05:41 AM	#2064
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	would love to have the skills to help in this...but i havent. __________________

09-09-11, 05:15 PM	#2065
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Hitman: Yes, it is possible to spawn and attack only at night. It's already programmed. Stiebler told me that 99,9% of all wolfpack attacks occured during darkness. And yes, the AI-subs will attack in surfaced state, since their job is only to attack and irritate / deflect the escorts. Maybe I'll add a sound source to them, but only if necessary. I know how to add new visual sensors, since for my private GWX version I have different visual sensors depending on ship type - as in NYGM. For that I used a different file hsieSensors.dat. The problem is (no, was!) that none of these (unmodded) AI visual sensors work in GWX black night, they are all blind. But I already programmed a working sensor hack, so that the AI-subs can see and fire over long distances even in black nights. That's what I need! __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie Last edited by h.sie; 09-09-11 at 06:08 PM.

09-10-11, 03:46 AM	#2067
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,111 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Brilliant H.Sie, just what the doctor ordered __________________ One day I will return to sea ...