U-BOOT_HAHD Official Thread

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

@ NGT: Your post is a good one, and well thought out. I will make one comment.


I thought that is what he was doing here. And he has said that if enough of his team members objected he would drop the idea and stay with SH3. I think that was honest and fair enough.

Hi mate,

By the way it was not 1 torpedo but a whole bunch of them! (put the Benny Hill tune here)
Best regards Hans

SH5 has massive problems with adding new Units at this time.
Sure there are Units added by the dat thing.
They have many issues that I find repulsive!

SH5 will get it's full due attention as Tools and other things are sorted out.
That I am sure of.

But I find that SH4 has nearly everything in place at this very moment for a Most Excellent platform to abuse!

Originally Posted by Hans Witteman

Hi mate,

Yep i saw the wildfire starting to spread all across that thread people are so emotionally Tye to a version that they can't see the possibility of other version capability.

I would love to gather a team for SH4 like you are proposing but since i made the post to assemble such a team no one seem very active anymore on SH4 ato forum.

We will see after a couple week if they show up.

Best regards Hans

And if it was GWX 4 for SH4 back in production?
Those same people would wet themselves and all hell would breakout in the Forums!!


IF an SH4 Team is constructed for HAHD?
I will be there.
It is a time limited offer though.
I have my attention on things for SH5 right now.
Once i get really, REALLY serious with that?
All offers are off the table.

Not trying to pressure you, but that's how I work.

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by privateer

SH5 has massive problems with adding new Units at this time.
Sure there are Units added by the dat thing.
They have many issues that I find repulsive!

SH5 will get it's full due attention as Tools and other things are sorted out.
That I am sure of.

But I find that SH4 has nearly everything in place at this very moment for a Most Excellent platform to abuse!

Hi again mate,

That exactly my view on it since i start exploring SH4 deeper i noticed many huge mistake and graphical glitch but nothing that can't be fix.

It really look like this version was rush out in a hurry.

Some point i noticed last night :

1.Free camera move make water wobble faster just like time compression.

2.Water crease are horrible when wave join in.

3.Water bump pattern over stretch.

4. damage model not looking good at all they use alpha on shell hit but this method leave hull thin as paper and spread out damage is not realistic.

5. Sub repair section not as good as Sh3 and no crew management like sh3.

6. Seem like the sub and ship physic need a lot of improvement.

7. Wave way too big in harbor.

Nothing that can't be fix but there is a lot of work only on fixing the water model and environment .

Best regards Hans

[Jaeger]

Originally Posted by Hans Witteman

Hi again mate,

That exactly my view on it since i start exploring SH4 deeper i noticed many huge mistake and graphical glitch but nothing that can't be fix.

It really look like this version was rush out in a hurry.

Some point i noticed last night :

1.Free camera move make water wobble faster just like time compression.

2.Water crease are horrible when wave join in.

3.Water bump pattern over stretch.

4. damage model not looking good at all they use alpha on shell hit but this method leave hull thin as paper and spread out damage is not realistic.

5. Sub repair section not as good as Sh3 and no crew management like sh3.

6. Seem like the sub and ship physic need a lot of improvement.

Nothing that can't be fix but there is a lot of work only on fixing the water model and environment .

Best regards Hans

i am not quite sure if you have to reinvent the wheel here, because lots of bugs are fixed till today. a good point to start could be trigger maru, a well known supermod, which has lots of fixes implemented. perhaps asking the old modding crew (ducimus in this case) would be a good step...

edit: i reread the last posts and must see you dont want o go to sh4 now... this is a pitty because lots of possibilities because of the better engine cant be used now. but you are the technic guy, you know what would be the best and i always will be glad to see any result the group will release. go on!



Good luck, Jaeger

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by Jaeger

i am not quite sure if you have to reinvent the wheel here, because lots of bugs are fixed till today. a good point to start could be trigger maru, a well known supermod, which has lots of fixes implemented. perhaps asking the old modding crew (ducimus in this case) would be a good step...

i am very happy with this hahd sh4 thing now, and i wish your team the very best. i hope lots of the talented modders could join the group to get the aim as fast as possible. but dont hurry, the crowd here is very patient. they know what it means to wait...

Good luck, Jaeger

Hi mate,

Thank for the constructive comments we need more of those and yes when ready i will PM Ducimus for advice.

What folks tend to forget is that i didn't have a team since the beginning so it is easy to explain the time it take for a solo modder to get all that work done.

Also most team members are now gone and the 3d workload is all on my shoulder and this is the most time consuming process in the pipeline.

Best regards Hans

[ryanwigginton]

Hans, your number 1. point reference SH4 has always been a big annoyance for me. I mentioned it when the sim was first released but there was little interest.

For me, I would describe the waves as mechanical looking, and not fluid. Good for screenshots but poor when seen in motion.

Sorry, I'm derailing the thread. I will post any further comments in the appropriate place.

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by ryanwigginton

Hans, your number 1. point reference SH4 has always been a big annoyance for me. I mentioned it when the sim was first released but there was little interest.

For me, I would describe the waves as mechanical looking, and not fluid. Good for screenshots but poor when seen in motion.

Sorry, I'm derailing the thread. I will post any further comments in the appropriate place.

Little has changed in this regard when you look at the scene.dat.The only thing is the new devs tweaked the water to look how they felt the ocean should look.Hans will no doubt tweak the water to behave how he likes.

[BUKER]

Hi Hans,

As I said I was disappointed by your decision.
Let me explain why.
The main reason is that in SH-3 never will be a real submarine type IXC.
Its just no one except you can not do, Hans.
And if the model of type II and type VII in SH-3 is more or less normal, type IX is terrible.
In general, I had high hopes for you in this.

As for the whole project SH-4, then of course it is much broader capabilities than SH-3, the only thing that bothered me always, so it's tropical weather and crystal clear water.
I saw a lot of mods to the Atlantic, but nobody has been able to change the weather.
By the way, and your fashion torped_HAND if you remember, I used the SH-4 one of the first.
The truth is not well ....


I think you need to complete and release at least part of fashion for people to believe you.
Then later they can easily support all your initiatives.

I am confident knowing your talent, no one here will be against the SH-4 as a whole, people just do not want to wait a long time.


Personally, I'll always be on your side.

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by BUKER

Hi Hans,

As I said I was disappointed by your decision.
Let me explain why.
The main reason is that in SH-3 never will be a real submarine type IXC.
Its just no one except you can not do, Hans.
And if the model of type II and type VII in SH-3 is more or less normal, type IX is terrible.
In general, I had high hopes for you in this.

As for the whole project SH-4, then of course it is much broader capabilities than SH-3, the only thing that bothered me always, so it's tropical weather and crystal clear water.
I saw a lot of mods to the Atlantic, but nobody has been able to change the weather.
By the way, and your fashion torped_HAND if you remember, I used the SH-4 one of the first.
The truth is not well ....


I think you need to complete and release at least part of fashion for people to believe you.
Then later they can easily support all your initiatives.

I am confident knowing your talent, no one here will be against the SH-4 as a whole, people just do not want to wait a long time.


Personally, I'll always be on your side.

Its just a change of colors and its no problem at all to make the ocean appear like Atlantic.Of course its no problem for the weather modders that is.Plus the water in SH4 has particles floating around already and the ground has large boulders and grass so another plus.

[Anvart]

I think that some the advantages of graphics SH4 blinded eyes and mind of Hans ... Need to play enough long time in SH4, and do some exterior and interior mods, to understand that in order to get the same spirit and sensation as in SH3 (and keep up the level of modeling and graphics as in SH4) need to do a lot of work on editing/creation of the German u-boats, harbors and ships... and, accordingly, the end of the project will be delayed on indefinitely... but interest to SH4 have long been lost.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Hans Witteman

Hi mate,

I know you are a die hard fan of SH3 and i am to, i defend this platform since the beginning but i was just listening to what most people were wishing to see in this mod specially the water shader .

For having a discussion with team it is exactly what i am doing here in thread with you guys and i mention that your decision is crucial to a yes or no and if it is no then we will finish it completely for sh3 and after it is release we port it to sh4 with the team members that are willing to do so.

You sound bitter and i would like to know the main point why SH4 is a totally no go for you at least explain the main reasons so we can make a wise decision.

Best regards Hans

HANS when i said that you have to discuss it with team first ...i didn't meant ...Publicly ! publicity is a bad weapon that can be handled ,controled and create totally unreal impressions...i don't like this 'weapon'...is not straight !i had told you ,at past, that i would like you to announce only the final decision of whole team in public.
anyway,you are asking me why i am negative to sh4 'route'...here you are,

for sh4:
i see that all that matters at the end are just the eye candies.you may import as much ships as you like ,polish them to an unseen detail level, you may import as many ports as you like ,you may write one more bigger-boring campaign....campaigns were never real challenging(...all the same even the dynamic feature doesn't 'saving' them from 'sinking'),you may create an unseen interior ,you may create unbelievable animations....
You think that,at the end, will be something real new ??? most players will look at these nice graphics or animations (that will take you and others in sh4 team more that maybe 1 year to complete) for one week and then will through it away . you know why ? becuase nice graphics are not 'saving' the dead game. nice 'clothes' are made for been weared by beautyfull bodies and not by dead bodies.don't 'fool' yourselfs ...at the end will be the same game with much much better and detailed graphics.

you are just making the same mistake that ubi did with sh4 and sh5 . they found a 'gum' (gum=nice graphics) and they believed that they could proceed forward ONLY with this . big ....fail at sh4 and epic fail at sh5(although i believe that at sh5's case they allready knew the fate of it and they just made it for getting some fast and easy money ).they didn't seriously work at all the simulator -nothing real serious added - and graphics can't keep your interest for much long (1 week is the max i can give even at your perfect graphics which i believe will be ,indeed, superb).it doesn't matter if you have 10 or 100 different amazing ships to sink if the gameplay is not challenging.

for sh3:
so ,you may wonder ...why sh3 then.you may wonder that all the above are ,also , exactly the same at sh3 (with lower level at graphics) . the answer is that there is a big difference at sh3 but you have to start looking further than your noses. the sh3 has...future becuase of H.Sie and Stiebler ! YES , just becuase of these two people(and the guys that supporting them) who were not afraid to fight with the 'beast' which are the executables !but someone need to have real skills and deep knowledge to start touching there .exactly there, is the real power of modding that ,at past,many said that had.... but only H.Sie and Stiebler (i think FaderBerg too) are showing !
yes guys ...the REAL challenge and future is the executables and NOT the graphics,not the ships ,not the ports,not the campaigns.we have seen all these many and many times (same 'gum' ...same story that ubi is offering to you for many years now)...what will be the difference? the better graphics ? is that all ?

Hans ,the reason that i offered to help you was exactly the 'future' i saw at sh3 through the hacking of executables that H.Sie and Stiebler are doing . H.Sie and Stiebler are creating the 'nice body' and i saw you coming to 'dress' this body with your nice - PROFESSIONAL clothes ! i offered to help you at the part that i learn to do best...the gui.
me and Reaper managed some really interesting things at gui but ,as the matter has become only the eye-candies, these things were overpassed or totally ignored.

Hans ,as you decided to make a jump to sh4 make sure ,FIRST, that there will be 'strong' modders who will working on executables.this is the ONLY thing that will lead your SH4 team to something really interesting to look at and at something that will keep for many years (if not forever becuase hacking the executables may have no limit at all ).without hacking the executables ...don't expect the graphics to 'save' the project ! ubi had the same 'expectations' and history is proving that eye-candies are ,for sure , not enough . i know that this is 'hard' for you becuase ,as an artist, you definetely are an 'eye-cander' but need to see clearly things here just becuase of the amount of the work you will put in it!the 'life' will be the ...simulator and simulator is at executables

ps: as the point here are the good graphics then i am wondering ...why NOT to go directly to sh5 from sh3? sh5 has the most powerfull and potential engine(way more powerfull than sh4's)
...sooner or later (be sure that it will be soon) you will be able import ships-ports-etc so if you are willing ,indeed, to start a project like that for sh4 then do it for sh5 which ,without doupt has a much much better water from sh4 and much much better graphics . buy it (it costs less then 5 euros) , try it and you will see that it is far much better than sh4 .just wait as little bit and tools will show up to do the job.
and you have Reaper ,DrJones and TDW who can make 'miracles' at the guis ...at sh5's gui there are NO limits at all ! (at sh3's and at sh4's there are limits).

ps2: generally , i don't agree with your 'move' but it would be better to have asked me privately about it . the above is my stand but my feelings for you haven't changed ... i trully believe (from the start) that you are the Oleg of Silent Hunter and i am more than sure that your work will shut down even the most 'unfaithful' mouths.just make sure FIRST that you are going to 'dress' a nice 'body'...remember : Graphics ...DON'T LAST LONG ! Riven was one of my all favourite games...and guess what ? ...it had STATIC graphics...but AMAZING immersion ! i was totally forgot the real world when i 'was' in Riven's or Myst's (number 1 of series) worlds.


ps3: of course i will release the gui ...no question about this...i never keep things on my HD becuase i believe that is the only way for moving forward.just an idea from this ,one more from... that and development continues !
the sh4's menu_ini is tricky ...needs to study it up and it needs a lot of work to import the whole gui in sh4 ,in case that is possible to be done.
but i am with Hitman on this: if you go to sh4 ,use the Karamazovnew's gui,will save a lot of time and effort. i can garantee for Kara becuase i know the work that is made behind the scenes on this mod .it needs (for HAHD uiia scopes) to adjuste the fovs at scopes in order to be set at 40 degrees(for type iia scopes) and tweaks at rest optics (deck-uzo-binos) to 'follow' the historical values and 'keep' the propotions.

as i said , my opinion DOESN'T MUTTER anymore becuase either what you will choose to do (sh3 or sh4) my part on this has ended(i don't see where else i should be usefull). i did what i knew to do and if you choose to go for sh4 it doesn't REALLY mutter at all for me. I and John are very huppy with this project (gui) and surely will enjoy it for many many hours . this gui definetely was not a 'reinventing the wheel' as some very lightly judged without having even see and 'feel' it first !



remember Hans and SH4 team : nice clothes are for nice bodies !

sincerely , i wish you all the best !

Manos

[Sailor Steve]

@ makman94: Those are some very powerful and well-thought-out arguments. I'm certainly in no position to challenge them, but I would like to address a couple of them anyway.

1. SH4 has a lot more to offer than just graphics. The way the campaign files are structured is much more advanced, and allows for many more ships to be added without adding to the loading times. That may mean little, but it means a lot to me personally.

2. Since I was the one who used the phrase "reinventing the wheel" I would like to point out that it was not in reference to a particular GUI, but to the fact that some people were saying that they could somehow put SH4 water into SH3. Perhaps that is possible, but a lot of the graphics are about the water. Since SH4 is basically SH3 with better graphics, why bother to put SH4 graphics into SH3? SH5 is another story. Until ships and things can be ported into SH5, why bother? I personally think SH4 is the perfect compromise, being essentially an improved SH3.

My "reinventing the wheel" comment was about the water, nothing more.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

SH5 is another story. Until ships and things can be ported into SH5, why bother?

because we can import new items using dat file format into SH5. It's not perfect like the gr2 file format but something is better than nothing. We'll have a way to import/make new GR2 files in the not too distant future.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

@ makman94: Those are some very powerful and well-thought-out arguments. I'm certainly in no position to challenge them, but I would like to address a couple of them anyway.

1. SH4 has a lot more to offer than just graphics. The way the campaign files are structured is much more advanced, and allows for many more ships to be added without adding to the loading times. That may mean little, but it means a lot to me personally.

2. Since I was the one who used the phrase "reinventing the wheel" I would like to point out that it was not in reference to a particular GUI, but to the fact that some people were saying that they could somehow put SH4 water into SH3. Perhaps that is possible, but a lot of the graphics are about the water. Since SH4 is basically SH3 with better graphics, why bother to put SH4 graphics into SH3? SH5 is another story. Until ships and things can be ported into SH5, why bother? I personally think SH4 is the perfect compromise, being essentially an improved SH3.

My "reinventing the wheel" comment was about the water, nothing more.

about:
1. there are mods which are 'cutting' the campaign to parts (Mediteranean or indian or ...etc) and are reducing drasticly the loading times . Mediteranean is loading at 1,5 minute on my pc....i can live with that is not big deal at all.

2. if you read carefully my message ,you will figure out that graphics comes second to my list. about the water ...all i am saying is that i like it (don't believe that is 'amazing' though ...just good.when it is moving is totally unrealistic ) and IF it would be possible to be imported to sh3 will be very good .but if this never happened...then again this is fine with me...i can live with sh3's water too ...water,for me, is not a serious criterion for choosing platform.
why bother with sh5 ? exactly becuase for the reasons you are vote sh4 . tools are on the way ...maybe less than a year and import will start .will sh4 HAHD be ready by now for fans to enjoy ? no...and all will turn to sh5 .

ps: ok with the comment ...i misjudjed . i am asking sorry about it.