[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Fish40

Current patrol: April/44 off Formosa. Had at least two encounters with AC. Didn't stick around to fight. Hit the deep in a hurry

If I'm not mistaken, Ducimus who created the mod that allowed aircraft to spot you at 150 feet deep, gave permission to use this mod in RFB. Therefore, if an aircraft is in the vacinity, he can spot and bomb you when you are submerged. An evil but necessary mod because the planes could see your sub at those depths in the clear water of the Pacific

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

After some tests with RFB+Webster's torpedo mod ver. 1 (+25% more powerful torps) using attached test mission I must report that if we divide merchants for three tonnage classes situation looks as follows:

- ships with tonnage under 2500 tons sink after one torpedo hit in the middle of hull

- ships with tonnage between 2500 and 5000 tons should sink after two hits

- ships in 5000-10000 tons range sinks after three hits

I can do all of that in RFB without having to install a mod that increases the power of the torpedoes, in bad weather and on moonless nights, so what's your issue?

And let me just come out here and say this: NO, WEBSTER'S torpedo power mod is NOT compatible with RFB. You are only screwing up the damage model that we have worked very, very hard on these past months. If a bug arises with a particular ship or feature (like it has been), then by all means, let us know. Just complaining, however, that this ship damage mod sucks and repeats the old errors of other mods does nothing to help improve the mod.

[Sardaukar67]

Problem is that RFB Natural Sinking Model seems to be bit ahistorical. Ships did often sink because of loss of balance, not flooding per se (IMHO). That is well-documented as is number of exploding torpedo hits to achieve sinking.

Now, hits to same compartment do not help at all, while in reality, they'd cause critical results quite often, up to breaking ship in two.

Something like

http://www.combinedfleet.com/shoksinknotes.htm

It often takes me 6 exploding hits to sing large freighter...which is way above historical numbers. I try to be constructive, instead of griping, tho. There obviously was large amount of work that went towards this mod and generally I have been very happy with it.

[Bosje]

ok, I guess the tanker sinkings mentioned above are 'critical hits' then?

I've seen ships settle down and sink neatly in anywhere from 30 minutes to +/- 3 hours but I've never seen something go down within minutes, even if secondary explosions resulted from the torpedo impact

Anything which did not go down was seen to settle with a certain list and speed, keeping that up for hours and hours until I went in to finish them off (28 hours being the longest I shadowed a ship for so far)

I'll go and do a clean multi-installation with a 1 torpedo-1 ship captain and I'll try to come up with documented results. So far I've done my sinkings by spreading 3 torpedoes, most patrol reports I read so far seem to talk about spreads of 3, with 1 or 2 fish striking home and resulting sinking noises.

reposted questions:
-What is the news on the running away patch?
-And I noticed something about clipping distance in the new patch, does that mean we get everything rendered in the binoc view again? I'd love that

[Orion2012]

Originally Posted by Sardaukar67

Problem is that RFB Natural Sinking Model seems to be bit ahistorical. Ships did often sink because of loss of balance, not flooding per se (IMHO). That is well-documented as is number of exploding torpedo hits to achieve sinking.

Now, hits to same compartment do not help at all, while in reality, they'd cause critical results quite often, up to breaking ship in two.

Something like

http://www.combinedfleet.com/shoksinknotes.htm

It often takes me 6 exploding hits to sing large freighter...which is way above historical numbers. I try to be constructive, instead of griping, tho. There obviously was large amount of work that went towards this mod and generally I have been very happy with it.

It does mention her being ripped apart after explosions from the magazine. It also says her bow was in the water and she began taking on water from the forward elevator. If that was the case the deck had to be below or extremely low in the water. If she did rupture at this point it , in my opinion, it would have been more likely blamed on structural strains caused by the lifting of the stern from the water and/or weakened steel due to the burning oil, and aviation fuel, not to mention the thousands of pounds of ordinance that was on board.

Just trying to say the majority of ships sunk would have been caused by the loss of neutral buoyancy due to the intake of water. Also worth pointing out that in this case the bow going down first may have cause the Shokaku to driver herself into the water if she was accelerating to evade.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by MDV_4life

Gorshkov, can you give me a link of the torp mods?

Is it this one we're speaking about.. Webster's torpedo mod..

Here you are direct links. Try and choose in your personal taste:

http://files.filefront.com/WEBSTERs+.../fileinfo.html

http://files.filefront.com/WEBSTERs+.../fileinfo.html

@LukeFF: Of course above mod is not compatible with RFB but sorry I do not think it is reasonable to sink merchants with 5-6 torps as other skippers reported here. I know it is artificial and unrealistic fix but unless you do not improve RFB's sinking mechanics many players will use Webster's concept. Naturally we can discuss Websters+RFB issue in separate thread if this thread is warped in RFB Team opinion by including such discussion.

[kwbgjh2]

I am really ok with the RFB mod. In my youth i red many u-boat adventures of the kriegsmarine and nowadays i read about the fleet boats on wikipedia.

The main thing is that even none of the german asses reached the sucess of their WW1 pendants. The sucess of Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière, who sunk 194 Merchants with 453.716 tons in 14 patrols was never reached again.
So most patrols of WW2 were just a combination of boredom and stress.

Many people here seem to have forgotten that the american sucess of submarines which crippled the japanese merchant navy so heavy was a product of the outstanding number of subs after end of 1943 and not of single SUPER CREWS who sunk 25 ships per patrol.

But.. something in the new damage model is a little strange to me, too.
Today i picked up a single "Small Old Split Freighter". Targetting with Dick O'Kane i fired 2 fish, both impact. From the first second i was sure he must go done.
After getting hit he accellareted from 8 knots to 12 knots. When i was sure that he got no deck gun i surfaced. When he noticed me he turned into large right hand bend. I did the same on his starboard side.

It was like a corral in an old Western. Seddlers on the inside, natives outside.:rotfl:

After 20 min (for which i used tc) i started a little practise with the deck gun. 40 rounds fired, 20 by me 20 by AI crew. I won the competition because i got 16 hits, the ai only 12.

So we revolved each other for another 15 mins and than he sunk.

So far i know i HAVE TO SEE the sinking of the ship for getting the credits. I am really not proud of my absolute unrealistic and silly behavior

But what could i do ? To slow to follow under water. So let him go without credits ?!

[MDV_4life]

Originally Posted by kwbgjh2

I am really ok with the RFB mod. In my youth i red many u-boat adventures of the kriegsmarine and nowadays i read about the fleet boats on wikipedia.

The main thing is that even none of the german asses reached the sucess of their WW1 pendants. The sucess of Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière, who sunk 194 Merchants with 453.716 tons in 14 patrols was never reached again.
So most patrols of WW2 were just a combination of boredom and stress.

Many people here seem to have forgotten that the american sucess of submarines which crippled the japanese merchant navy so heavy was a product of the outstanding number of subs after end of 1943 and not of single SUPER CREWS who sunk 25 ships per patrol.

But.. something in the new damage model is a little strange to me, too.
Today i picked up a single "Small Old Split Freighter". Targetting with Dick O'Kane i fired 2 fish, both impact. From the first second i was sure he must go done.
After getting hit he accellareted from 8 knots to 12 knots. When i was sure that he got no deck gun i surfaced. When he noticed me he turned into large right hand bend. I did the same on his starboard side.

It was like a corral in an old Western. Seddlers on the inside, natives outside.:rotfl:

After 20 min (for which i used tc) i started a little practise with the deck gun. 40 rounds fired, 20 by me 20 by AI crew. I won the competition because i got 16 hits, the ai only 12.

So we revolved each other for another 15 mins and than he sunk.

So far i know i HAVE TO SEE the sinking of the ship for getting the credits. I am really not proud of my absolute unrealistic and silly behavior

But what could i do ? To slow to follow under water. So let him go without credits ?!

.
I know it sucks when you don't get credits when it's because of your acting that he sunk ( when have to leave the ship because maybe there are some Destroyers are heading your way )

I also play an online shooter and you can bleed to death if you don't get help from a medic. I would love to see that the one who hurt him the most, would get the credits , but that's something I cannot change anything about. It's the modders who have to make this things happen. So all we can do is bother them ...

[tater]

kwbgjh2, in RL, there were many times they only "got credit" because they reported they herd breaking up noises, or secondary explosions, etc. "Heard" because they were held down by escorts. In some cases they got credit, others they did not. Sometimes they got credit, and postwar records show them to be wrong.

The game has no fog of war in this regard. It would be cool to see a sub sim that has credit separated from the actual results.

tater

[Bosje]

it's gonna be hard to come up with a way to recreate the real patrol tonnage, sure

even with RSRD i'm still having an easy time finding targets for all my torpedoes.
As a workaround, the damage model does serve its purpose to limit your kills but it's just too frustrating to see them sail off at 10 knots. unsatisfying even if it makes your end result realistic, lol.

silly, really. the only thing i can think of is an increased INaccuracy on your shots, to make you miss 2 shots out of a spread of 3. that one shot which is on target can then fail for any number of further reasons. that's how they did not have the good old 25 kill patrols in the real deal, from what i've read.

Still, it doesnt stop me getting grumpy when I see a ship not going down after hitting it. and more grumpy to see it run away from me. anyone else agree with this observation? would there be support for a bigger random torpedo inaccuracy or for some way of making your plot turn out wrong perhaps?

i doubt if the coding allows for a way to misjudge the target on the map but then again, i can't be bothered to entirely turn off the map updates. stupid me

[Gorshkov]

Well, I have tested RFB+Webster mods and I have gathered additional infos. So I report it to you:

- because in current RFB mod version only merchants have NYGM sinking model it is necessary to choose proper Webster mod version to find good equilibrium between sinking warships and merchants. That is why I must recommend ver. 1 of this mod because unfortunately ver. 2 is also too effective in sinking warships. I am sure if we get all ships with new sinking model in the future RFB version it will be good idea to switch to ver. 2!

- yet even with ver. 1 it is possible to sink merchants with small amount of torps. I was able to sink even ship above 5000 tons displacement with two torps but you have to get very precise hits! In short two hits must be placed near each other and both close to ship's aft or bow. Look at below screen-shot to see what I mean. That way merchants sink quite fast (15-30 minutes, sometimes a bit longer) not because of flooding but due to loosing of balance! That is a key factor to overcome flaws associated with new sinking model. Of course this task is challenging because it requires precise targeting but that is exactly what most of us wants in such sim!



Two close hits near aft and 7000 tons merchant sunk after 15 minutes!

[banjo]

I just completed a career in RFB 1.52. Started in mid 1942. Seventeen patrols. Sunk dozens of ships per usual, but didn't see a warship until late 1944 then encountered some I'd say about four different times. Interestingly, I didn't see a Jap a/c until March of 1945. I wanted to try out my twin 20 mm and the 40mm so stayed on the surface as an experiment. Was promptly sunk. As always when using RSRDC ships get very scarce starting in 1944.

[banjo]

I mispoke a few pages back when I said Webster's torpedo mods are compatible with RFB. For that I apologize. What I should have said was that mod works with RFB, i.e., doesn't cause it to crash, at least on my system. However, as LukeFF pointed out, by using it you upset the authentic sinking mechanics so carefully crafted by the RFB modders. Having tried it both ways, I am going back to the un-modded RFB.

[Bosje]

yes, best to leave the mod unmodded at this point, lol

i'll be interested to see what the patch brings

[DeepIron]

Frankly, I'd like to see you guys take your torpedo and deck gun modding discussion to it's own thread. The object of the RFB thread is to discuss RFB, to answer questions about RFB, and get feedback on RFB.

If you want to talk about someone else's mods to RFB, please do us all the courtesy and start your own separate thread and leave this one uncluttered. It seems to me that a very few people who use RFB find fault with it and these "how to "fix the torpedo" and "how to fix the deck gun" mods are NOT contributory to RFB overall.

In short, if you want to discuss someone else's mods to RFB, go somewhere else and leave this thread to it's original purpose.