Can This Be A Work Around For The 8 KM Visibility? - Page 13

v!por · 07-29-05, 07:50 PM

Jungman:

Sorry I did not get this posted earlier... follow-up to earlier post..

Again.. I have VIIC 1/42, April of 43, snorkel, going north from Bersen to rraid northern routes to Mermask...

Installed Jungman's rwr mod, snorkel and visual mods.

I am traveling at 11 meters and with both attack and obser scopes up looking 180 and 0 ...

rwr warnings are great... able to dive in sufficient time... Jungman... the bombers.. always attack well behind my course.... never near me.... The B24s are hardest to detect..... not sure if rwr or if its ai on scopes....

Thought feed back would help and thanks for these mods....

South Florida may have gotten up to 90s today :<)

Egan · 07-30-05, 06:25 AM

Manual, the smoke in your screen shots - are you using a mod so that it stands out better? I'm testing much the same sort of visual set up just now but I'm darned If I can see anything at those distances.

Manuel Ortega · 07-30-05, 07:07 AM

I'm not using any smoke mod. It's normal that you can't see smoke (or anything) farther than 8 km. The default game engine cuts at 10 km and objects start to fade at 7.5 or 8 km.
This is a visual mod that I'm developing. It's not published yet, and has to be finished. There are a lot of values that have to be changed, not only in the scene.dat file. There are 3 cloud types (clear, cloudy and overcast), all of them with 4 fog parameters (no fog, light, medium and heavy), and 3 more types of ocean (Arctic, Atlantic and Mediterranean). Multiply those numbers and you get all the combinations that have to be modified...

Immacolata · 07-30-05, 07:22 AM

Now that is a sight for sore eyes. Convoy spotting at 18 km, I like that. To further enhance visual range than that would be needless IMO, this looks like a vast improvement already.

I wonder if the haze value can be altered to cover a clipping real ocen/pseudo ocean edge?

And this is for mr. AI sensor fixer Jungman: does the crew and WO sensor values take haze and night conditions into consideration for spotting ranges? Or do they have 20/20 cybernetically enhanced robot laser eyes that spots a gull at 20000 yards on a moonless night?

Duke of Earl · 07-30-05, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea

Jungman, your sensor does work! Spotted a convoy faarther than usual, at night, not 20 clicks, we had clear weather and a moon but my crew were rather tired and I had put my WO to bed. But it was farther than before.

Ditto for me too... spotted a Fletcher DD @ 20km... amazing!...

... also, aircraft visual spotting ranges have doubled too!!...

... and this occurred @ 64 TC...

Horizon clipping is visible in Binoc view... High Altitude ocean area is a smaller square shape... and no smoke on the horizon... but I can overlook small things like that...

This is going to be super when Manuel gets all the visual elements polished up...

Thanks Jungman and thanks Manuel...

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

Treeburst155 · 07-30-05, 12:43 PM

Wow!! This gets better every day. Thanks Manuel and Jungman!

Treeburst155 out.

Manuel Ortega · 07-30-05, 02:04 PM

Jungman, I have sent you a PM.

Visual adjustments are near completed. I have found a equilibrate set of values that works well.

Current maximum distances (and maybe the definitive):
- No fog: 18200 m
- Light fog: 9500 m
- Medium fog: 4600 m
- Heavy fog: 600 m

Land can be seen a 10% farther than objects.
Sun, Moon and stars have been relocated too. Now moon and sun are half the original size.
There is a little of clipping on land that happens when appears on sight. Maybe it can be fixed with more tweaks.

The fps loss is a little agressive. In my pc I get about 12 fps while at port, with all those cranes, people, buildings, etc... But at high seas it remains above 25 fps. It's an old AMD 1700 XP with 768 MB RAM and a RADEON 9600. Sure that you have one better

Observer · 07-30-05, 03:15 PM

That sound very good Manuel!

Treeburst155 · 07-30-05, 05:19 PM

Report on Jungman's scene.dat tweak:

I just got a "nearest visual contact, 18,300 meters" from my WO when I asked for it. This happened on October 1 at 0600 on the Halifax/Liverpool convoy route due south of Iceland. Windspeed was 4 mps, partial cloud cover with light fog.

I had no visual weirdness unless I elevated the F12 view to more than double the height of the F4 view and looked at the horizon. Even then, no big deal.

I'm also set up with Jungman's "SensorPak", in case that matters.

I have one question. Should I be able to fairly accurately determine enemy range, course, and speed at close to 20,000 meters? With the Assisted Plotting Mod (in RUb) I can now do just that from WO provided info alone. I may turn off the Automatic Map Updates just so I get a little inaccuracy in plotting.

Perhaps the WO can be made to NOT see things at extreme distances EVERY time. It would be nice if he messed up on the range estimate a little too, say +/- 10%.

The more you do, the more they want.

Thanks again, and Keep Up the Great Work!!

Treeburst155 out.

Jungman · 07-30-05, 05:20 PM

Manuel those fog values look good. I sent a PM back.

As was said here

Quote:

does the crew and WO sensor values take haze and night conditions into consideration for spotting ranges? Or do they have 20/20 cybernetically enhanced robot laser eyes that spots a gull at 20000 yards on a moonless night?

This will be a problem. The enemy AI and your crew and a few other Sensor and sim.cfg values must be all changed and play balanced tested. You can make the AI take into account fog, light level, sweep time, probablity to detect, surface size area, Min MaxSensor Height, plus range distance modifiers.

If this is not changed in the CFG and AI_Sensors.dat and Sensors.dat, your crew will have superman laser eyesight and it will take away the fun for you to spot a ship far off. Plus the enemy AI will see you too. And you thought airplanes were bad in the stock game....

Those several values need to be tweaked to find a decent spotting 'ability' over all. I have experience with what these changes do in game. it is more complex than what it looks like to achieve a fun balance between them all.

Plus it will need to be integrated into any mod the affect the AI_Sensors.dat and Sensor.dat. Such as SonarDC, RF_Detect, etc.

Or for those that wish a stock game will have its own version too.

Treeburst155 · 07-30-05, 07:00 PM

Same mission but weather changed to heavy rain, heavy fog, and night. As soon as I got a "Ship Spotted", I asked the WO for nearest visual contact. It was at 4,200 meters! So weather and time of day still have a significant effect on the WOs abilities, just as it should be. Woohee!!

Hmmm.....I'm seeing 4 km at night in heavy rain/fog. Well, this is probably tweakable, correct Herr Jungman? I'm available to test this visual range question extensively if needed.

Treeburst155 out.

Jungman · 07-30-05, 07:26 PM

Yes it is, and it needs alot of factors to consider. That is what I can help with greatly. All that stuff is changeable. The fog/rain distances affects are in the Scene.dat and I need to edit Manuel Visual beta Mod personally to work with the AI sensors.dat files and cfg files.

Thanks for the feedback, it is important.

I am waiting to work with Manuel's beta Visual mod for play balance AI Sensors tweaking to get a decent behavior.

I want a chance for you spot at the horizon, as in the WO is not perfect. I can make this happen, even a few surprises...did not see that warship coming?

I think you still would want your Radar Warning, Active Radar and Hydrophones to have a use. Else, what good are they?

All these various sensors need to be changed to get a decent gameplay. Even the enemy AI radar will be a mute point with super seeing ability.

I must make these tweaks for his visual beta mod because it will not be the same for my hacked scene.dat (I would finish it and clean it up -but Manuel would like me to work on the AI sensors balance on his Mod.) Time is never enough to go around.

It does take alot of careful testing to get a good working model so that all your tools at your disposal are useful. Plus you do not want the AI enemy ships and airplanes to be doing odd things.

Manuel Ortega · 07-30-05, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manuel Ortega

There is a little of clipping on land that happens when appears on sight. Maybe it can be fixed with more tweaks.

Clipping problems fixed.

By the way, I'm tweaking the sensors files and it's not as difficult as I thought.
From sensors.dat I only have changed the MaxRange and PreciseRange in the Visual sensor, and I don't think that it needs more modifications.
From sensors.cfg I changed the Visual fog factor and Visual light factor.
That's all. Now ships appear on sight at the same time that my crew spot them, and tested in all weather conditions with no problems.

But night conditions are different. I have tested several values but when a ship is correctly detected during night (a lot closer), it is a total mess when dawn and dusk, with ships clearly visible in horizon by player but not by the AI.

Expect a release of this mod in the next days...

rulle34 · 07-30-05, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manuel Ortega

Expect a release of this mod in the next days...

Looking forward to this mod!

Thank you all for good work!

/Rulle

Jungman · 07-30-05, 07:53 PM

That is the basic changes. I though maybe you may want the WO not to be perfect, by increasing the Sweep Time under Visual in the Sensors.dat file for 15 seconds to maybe something higher? Plus change the Arc Size and Probability_within_arc?

Probability_within_arc. is set for 95%. I though it would be fun for the AI crew not to have such good visual spotting at long distance.
Even in the stock game, the Watch crew is very quick to spot a ship and is almost never wrong. I though make it more random and time for them to see out that far just for a fun factor.

The fact that you can hear contacts using the hydrophones the AI crew misses on purpose. The same for visual spotting at distance -make it so if you are personally looking for ships far away, you will do a better job that the watch crew missed.

Dawn and dusk setting for the light factor will always be a problem. It is it tied mainly to the on/off redlight condition. But maybe something else can be changed.

Of course, we still would want our Radar Warning, Active Radar, and hydrophones to have a use?

07-29-05, 07:50 PM	#181
v!por Watch Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 26 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Feedback Snorkel etc... Jungman: Sorry I did not get this posted earlier... follow-up to earlier post.. Again.. I have VIIC 1/42, April of 43, snorkel, going north from Bersen to rraid northern routes to Mermask... Installed Jungman's rwr mod, snorkel and visual mods. I am traveling at 11 meters and with both attack and obser scopes up looking 180 and 0 ... rwr warnings are great... able to dive in sufficient time... Jungman... the bombers.. always attack well behind my course.... never near me.... The B24s are hardest to detect..... not sure if rwr or if its ai on scopes.... Thought feed back would help and thanks for these mods.... South Florida may have gotten up to 90s today :<)

07-30-05, 07:07 AM	#183
Manuel Ortega Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alicante - Spain Posts: 48 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm not using any smoke mod. It's normal that you can't see smoke (or anything) farther than 8 km. The default game engine cuts at 10 km and objects start to fade at 7.5 or 8 km. This is a visual mod that I'm developing. It's not published yet, and has to be finished. There are a lot of values that have to be changed, not only in the scene.dat file. There are 3 cloud types (clear, cloudy and overcast), all of them with 4 fog parameters (no fog, light, medium and heavy), and 3 more types of ocean (Arctic, Atlantic and Mediterranean). Multiply those numbers and you get all the combinations that have to be modified... __________________ My Visibility mod HERE

07-30-05, 02:04 PM	#187
Manuel Ortega Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alicante - Spain Posts: 48 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Jungman, I have sent you a PM. Visual adjustments are near completed. I have found a equilibrate set of values that works well. Current maximum distances (and maybe the definitive): - No fog: 18200 m - Light fog: 9500 m - Medium fog: 4600 m - Heavy fog: 600 m Land can be seen a 10% farther than objects. Sun, Moon and stars have been relocated too. Now moon and sun are half the original size. There is a little of clipping on land that happens when appears on sight. Maybe it can be fixed with more tweaks. The fps loss is a little agressive. In my pc I get about 12 fps while at port, with all those cranes, people, buildings, etc... But at high seas it remains above 25 fps. It's an old AMD 1700 XP with 768 MB RAM and a RADEON 9600. Sure that you have one better __________________ My Visibility mod HERE

07-30-05, 06:25 AM	#182
Egan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Manual, the smoke in your screen shots - are you using a mod so that it stands out better? I'm testing much the same sort of visual set up just now but I'm darned If I can see anything at those distances.

07-30-05, 07:22 AM	#184
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Now that is a sight for sore eyes. Convoy spotting at 18 km, I like that. To further enhance visual range than that would be needless IMO, this looks like a vast improvement already. I wonder if the haze value can be altered to cover a clipping real ocen/pseudo ocean edge? And this is for mr. AI sensor fixer Jungman: does the crew and WO sensor values take haze and night conditions into consideration for spotting ranges? Or do they have 20/20 cybernetically enhanced robot laser eyes that spots a gull at 20000 yards on a moonless night?

07-30-05, 12:43 PM	#186
Treeburst155 Watch Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 16 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Wow!! This gets better every day. Thanks Manuel and Jungman! Treeburst155 out.

07-30-05, 03:15 PM	#188
Observer Commander Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 477 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	That sound very good Manuel!

07-30-05, 05:19 PM	#189
Treeburst155 Watch Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 16 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Report on Jungman's scene.dat tweak: I just got a "nearest visual contact, 18,300 meters" from my WO when I asked for it. This happened on October 1 at 0600 on the Halifax/Liverpool convoy route due south of Iceland. Windspeed was 4 mps, partial cloud cover with light fog. I had no visual weirdness unless I elevated the F12 view to more than double the height of the F4 view and looked at the horizon. Even then, no big deal. I'm also set up with Jungman's "SensorPak", in case that matters. I have one question. Should I be able to fairly accurately determine enemy range, course, and speed at close to 20,000 meters? With the Assisted Plotting Mod (in RUb) I can now do just that from WO provided info alone. I may turn off the Automatic Map Updates just so I get a little inaccuracy in plotting. Perhaps the WO can be made to NOT see things at extreme distances EVERY time. It would be nice if he messed up on the range estimate a little too, say +/- 10%. The more you do, the more they want. Thanks again, and Keep Up the Great Work!! Treeburst155 out.

07-30-05, 07:00 PM	#191
Treeburst155 Watch Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 16 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Same mission but weather changed to heavy rain, heavy fog, and night. As soon as I got a "Ship Spotted", I asked the WO for nearest visual contact. It was at 4,200 meters! So weather and time of day still have a significant effect on the WOs abilities, just as it should be. Woohee!! Hmmm.....I'm seeing 4 km at night in heavy rain/fog. Well, this is probably tweakable, correct Herr Jungman? I'm available to test this visual range question extensively if needed. Treeburst155 out.

07-30-05, 07:26 PM	#192
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yes it is, and it needs alot of factors to consider. That is what I can help with greatly. All that stuff is changeable. The fog/rain distances affects are in the Scene.dat and I need to edit Manuel Visual beta Mod personally to work with the AI sensors.dat files and cfg files. Thanks for the feedback, it is important. I am waiting to work with Manuel's beta Visual mod for play balance AI Sensors tweaking to get a decent behavior. I want a chance for you spot at the horizon, as in the WO is not perfect. I can make this happen, even a few surprises...did not see that warship coming? I think you still would want your Radar Warning, Active Radar and Hydrophones to have a use. Else, what good are they? All these various sensors need to be changed to get a decent gameplay. Even the enemy AI radar will be a mute point with super seeing ability. I must make these tweaks for his visual beta mod because it will not be the same for my hacked scene.dat (I would finish it and clean it up -but Manuel would like me to work on the AI sensors balance on his Mod.) Time is never enough to go around. It does take alot of careful testing to get a good working model so that all your tools at your disposal are useful. Plus you do not want the AI enemy ships and airplanes to be doing odd things.

07-30-05, 07:53 PM	#195
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That is the basic changes. I though maybe you may want the WO not to be perfect, by increasing the Sweep Time under Visual in the Sensors.dat file for 15 seconds to maybe something higher? Plus change the Arc Size and Probability_within_arc? Probability_within_arc. is set for 95%. I though it would be fun for the AI crew not to have such good visual spotting at long distance. Even in the stock game, the Watch crew is very quick to spot a ship and is almost never wrong. I though make it more random and time for them to see out that far just for a fun factor. The fact that you can hear contacts using the hydrophones the AI crew misses on purpose. The same for visual spotting at distance -make it so if you are personally looking for ships far away, you will do a better job that the watch crew missed. Dawn and dusk setting for the light factor will always be a problem. It is it tied mainly to the on/off redlight condition. But maybe something else can be changed. Of course, we still would want our Radar Warning, Active Radar, and hydrophones to have a use?