Russian Politics Thread - Page 13

Mr Quatro · 12-21-20, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

The *evidence* is of, ehem, varying quality.

https://tarkhil.medium.com/два-слова...;-d0fb5db37473
A good longread (in Russian) on the general phosphoorganic poison topic.

That said - the recent events do rise valid questions about things such as illegal personal data markets, so maybe some good would come out of them.

The bait worked Neal

Keep up the good work

ikalugin · 12-21-20, 04:43 PM

Do you mean to say that it was an intentional trawling attempt?

I am trying to engage here, and on other platforms in good faith.
If I was being trawled intentionally by the moderator team here I am not sure if it would be worthwhile to stay.

Mr Quatro · 12-21-20, 04:47 PM

^ You Russians are so funny ... we love you comrade

Onkel Neal · 12-21-20, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Do you mean to say that it was an intentional trawling attempt?

I am trying to engage here, and on other platforms in good faith.
If I was being trawled intentionally by the moderator team here I am not sure if it would be worthwhile to stay.

I assure you comments by Mr Quatro are his thoughts only.

My post is not part of the moderation team, it is my personal interest in world news events, same as you and everyone else.

Skybird · 12-22-20, 09:13 AM

Nawalny's coup is a coup indeed, and may be true most likely at least, but there was little doubt on Russia'S guilt, if any, already before that. Their defence attemnpts and claims bordered bith hilariousness and impertinence.

Consequences for the future should be: no further new treaties and deals between Europe and Russia. But its the EU, always in good faith, always in good-willingness, always in good hope, so... dont count on it.

Puts Germany again into an uneasy seat regarding Nord Stream 2, but I think it will nevertheless see it through. Possible however that it will be the last treaty or deal done with Russia for a long time to come.

The Russian reaxctions are just what they always do: when gettign caugfht, putting another load of BS on top of the previous one. Its an old pattern.

On the other hand the EU is about signing a trade deal with China, that way rewarding China'S aggressive Uighur, South Chinese Sea and Hongkong policies and its bullying in its neighbourhood, and also rewarding the aggressive digital expansion along their silkroad project that in reality is not so much about just trade flow, but getting the international currency system under their control and by that using their currency as a wepaon to ionfleunce other nations, like the dollar regime stll does today.

Germany notoriously thinks it could influence the development of China towards a more liberal and democratic society by being extremely permissive in its economic policy and even still paying China development aid (!!). Well. Well-meant idiocy nevertheless is idiocy. And the Germans can stick to it for decades - proven fact.

We will reap what we sow there. The harvest will be as deserved.

Skybird · 12-29-20, 11:13 AM

Russia's federal prison service has given Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny an ultimatum that he either report to its office by Tuesday morning or face jail if he comes back to Russia after the deadline.

The Federal Prison Service (FSIN) issued a statement on Monday accusing Navalny of violating the terms of a suspended prison sentence he is still serving out in relation to a conviction from 2014.

https://www.dw.com/en/russia-tells-k...ail/a-56079126

This now probbaly means he is to stay in Germany, I assume?! His assistant has been arrested two days ago already, in obvious retaliation against Navalny.

Meanwhile, the Russian government delivers retaliatory strikes over EU sanctions against German, Dutch and other European diplomats who are being banned from visiting Russia.

Nord Stream 2 yes or no - its a yes, as it seems, the Germans have already indicated that they will not change their stand even after Biden's inauguration -, this cannot hide that Russian-German relations are as bad as they have ever been since WWII. And they should be that bad. Pacta sund servanda for existing treaties - but new treaties and deals between Germany and Russia, or the EU and Russia, really are in no way wanted or needed, and I cannot see this changing any time soon. Not under Putin. It may change - or not! - once we know who comes after Putin.

Catfish · 12-29-20, 11:53 AM

The russian government (or better Putin) does not deliver "retaliatory" strikes by banning diplomats, the western answer to his provocation and assasssination attempt was retaliatory. What Putin did and does is unilaterally attacking and killing of inconvenient persons all over the world.

Skybird · 12-29-20, 12:20 PM

Dont give this a twist again, I think you know very well what I said and how I meant it.

Of course the Western sanctions are legitimate, though not effective. And of course a Russian Retourkutsche, or retaliation if you want, was to be expected sooner or later. The Kremlin is a bit too heavy as if it needs to just sit put and presenting a target. The question is to what degree Germany or the EU are willing to ecalate it, considering their own light weight.

Moralising alone does not change the reasoning of the brutal offender. And a German operational ready state of military platforms and carrier systems of less than 40% while telling the public and NATO HQ it is above 75%, does not raise one's own credibility to be determined to deter the other if he chooses to mount more robust threats. That moscowphile and extremely radical pacifists have hijacked the SPD helm, does not help either.

No further expansion of relations and trade probably is the only thing that Germany really can do (and loosing a lot of moeny in that). If we would have better relations to Washington I maybe would even consider to stop NS2, it would deliver Russia a sting (for which it would seek retalation again), but as things stand right now, these relations are detoriating as well, with our lacking military committment in NATO we give Washington no reason to trust or respect us, nor does Washington give us any reason to trust and respect it in return - not after the past couple of years. With Biden, the tone will become more polite again: but not the substance of things.

The EU is on its own. We should trust neither Russia, nor America anymore, nor China (and not Turkey anyway...) Merkel unfortunately puts a lot of trust into China, still.

German illusions of how relevant one is.

Rockstar · 12-29-20, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry Markov

Gents, what are we talking about? What Stalin? What Putin? In any case only working deduction method is "cui prodest". The only side who gains proftit from this situation is US (plus some EU officials). The sides that bear maximum costs are Russia and Germany. Putin isn't insane to shoot our own leg. This is an under-table game of US against North Stream. File closed.

However I cannot fully reject the possibility of some kind of treason inside our officialdom as Skybird sais - but that's again works only in favor of US, not in interests of Russia and our people...

Funny you should mention NordStream, on 30 September 2020 the New York Times ran article also thinking it may have had something to do with that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/w...5b1d9810638625

I dont think it really matters to Germans if they get their energy from the U.S. Saudis, Russia via Ukraine or Nord Stream 2, they need outside sources to drive their economy and heat their homes in the winter, without it they will collapse. In my opinion thanks to Schroeder and his old east German contacts and current Russian connections. Putin able to give Russia better control over their own product and prevent U.S. use of Ukraine as leverage against Russia. I'd bet big money the Biden's are very upset right about now.

ikalugin · 12-30-20, 01:07 AM

Quote:

I'd bet big money the Biden's are very upset right about now.

From inability to profit on the Ukrainian energy transit, sure.

Rockstar · 12-30-20, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

From inability to profit on the Ukrainian energy transit, sure.

Yep, along with all the other usual suspects.

The preceding list, and the text which follows, enumerate forty-eight Americans - in legislative politics, diplomacy, law, business, and the military - who likely have ties to Ukrainian business interests (usually the energy market) and/or corruption in Ukrainian politics and/or military affairs.

These include persons who testified, and have stated willingness to testify, at the impeachment inquiry hearings regarding President Trump's possible collusion with Russia and/or Ukraine. Not all persons mentioned below have investments in Ukraine; but they are still worth mentioning for other reasons. For example, Alexander Vindman and Alexandra Chalupa don't have any known investments in Ukraine, but they are Ukrainian-American.

1. Adams, David
2. Archer, Devon
3. Biden, Hunter R.
4. Biden, Joseph R. “Joe” Jr.
5. Black, Joseph Cofer
6. Bolton, John
7. Carey, Laura
8. Chalupa, Alexandra
9. Clinton, Hillary Rodham
10. Clinton, William Jefferson “Bill”
11. Davis, Richard H. “Rick”
12. Freedman, Matthew C.
13. Gates, Richard “Rick”
14. Gucciardo, Charles
15. Giuliani, Rudolph “Rudy”
16. Giustra, Frank
17. Heinz, Christopher
18. Kent, George P.
19. Kerry, John
20. Kerry, Teresa Heinz
21. Leiter, David J.
22. Luzzatto, Tamera Stanton
23. Manafort, Paul J.
24. Mulvaney, John Michael "Mick"
25. Nuland, Victoria C.
26. Nunes, Devin
27. Obama, Barack Hussein
28. Pelosi, Alexandra
29. Pelosi, Nancy
30. Pelosi, Paul Jr.
31. Pelosi, Paul Sr.
32. Pence, Michael “Mike”
33. Podesta, John
34. Podesta, Tony
35. Pyatt, Geoffrey
36. Romney, Willard Mitt
37. Romney, Tagg
38. Schiff, Adam
39. Sondland, Gordon D.
40. Taylor, William Brockenbrough "Bill" Jr.
41. Trump, Donald J.
42. Vindman, Alexander
43. Volker, Kurt
44. Waters, Maxine
45. Weber, Vin
46. Williams, Jennifer
47. Yovanovitch, Marie
48. Zeldin, Lee

https://aquarianagrarian.blogspot.com/2019/10/thirty-american-politicians-with-ties.html

[edit] Seems everyone involved in the last politcal boondoggle had connections to Ukraine. Now this is just a guess, but maybe Trump and his circle were trying to muscle in for a bigger piece of the Ukraine pie but was met with a media storm of accusations, investigations, jail time and impeachment from those listed above? Putin however found a way to completely avoid all the drama and just ran a new underwater pipeline. LOL

Onkel Neal · 01-31-21, 11:17 AM

Navalny, victim of Putin's agents using nerve poison, returns to Russia, he's arrested. His wife arrested. His brother arrested. Over a thousand people demanding democracy in Russia, arrested. Subways and buses stations closed, restaurants and bars closed.

How long until the security forces under Putin's order get tired of attacking their friends and neighbors?

Mass arrests in Russia of protesters demanding Navalny's release

mapuc · 01-31-21, 12:37 PM

What I wonder is

Are Russia heading towards a civil war like situation ?

Markus

Jimbuna · 01-31-21, 01:29 PM

At least one source is claiming 4000 have either been detained or arrested.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55876033

Mr Quatro · 01-31-21, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Navalny, victim of Putin's agents using nerve poison, returns to Russia, he's arrested. His wife arrested. His brother arrested. Over a thousand people demanding democracy in Russia, arrested. Subways and buses stations closed, restaurants and bars closed.

How long until the security forces under Putin's order get tired of attacking their friends and neighbors?

First I have heard of the Druzhina

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=BingNews

Quote:

Joining the law enforcement officials in Moscow were hundreds of civilian guards wearing the red arm bands of the Druzhina, a Soviet-era people’s militia.

Let me know when it gets this bad

12-21-20, 04:43 PM	#182
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Do you mean to say that it was an intentional trawling attempt? I am trying to engage here, and on other platforms in good faith. If I was being trawled intentionally by the moderator team here I am not sure if it would be worthwhile to stay. __________________ Grumpy as always.

12-21-20, 04:47 PM	#183
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	^ You Russians are so funny ... we love you comrade __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

12-22-20, 09:13 AM	#185
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Nawalny's coup is a coup indeed, and may be true most likely at least, but there was little doubt on Russia'S guilt, if any, already before that. Their defence attemnpts and claims bordered bith hilariousness and impertinence. Consequences for the future should be: no further new treaties and deals between Europe and Russia. But its the EU, always in good faith, always in good-willingness, always in good hope, so... dont count on it. Puts Germany again into an uneasy seat regarding Nord Stream 2, but I think it will nevertheless see it through. Possible however that it will be the last treaty or deal done with Russia for a long time to come. The Russian reaxctions are just what they always do: when gettign caugfht, putting another load of BS on top of the previous one. Its an old pattern. On the other hand the EU is about signing a trade deal with China, that way rewarding China'S aggressive Uighur, South Chinese Sea and Hongkong policies and its bullying in its neighbourhood, and also rewarding the aggressive digital expansion along their silkroad project that in reality is not so much about just trade flow, but getting the international currency system under their control and by that using their currency as a wepaon to ionfleunce other nations, like the dollar regime stll does today. Germany notoriously thinks it could influence the development of China towards a more liberal and democratic society by being extremely permissive in its economic policy and even still paying China development aid (!!). Well. Well-meant idiocy nevertheless is idiocy. And the Germans can stick to it for decades - proven fact. We will reap what we sow there. The harvest will be as deserved. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-29-20, 11:13 AM	#186
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Russia's federal prison service has given Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny an ultimatum that he either report to its office by Tuesday morning or face jail if he comes back to Russia after the deadline. The Federal Prison Service (FSIN) issued a statement on Monday accusing Navalny of violating the terms of a suspended prison sentence he is still serving out in relation to a conviction from 2014. https://www.dw.com/en/russia-tells-k...ail/a-56079126 This now probbaly means he is to stay in Germany, I assume?! His assistant has been arrested two days ago already, in obvious retaliation against Navalny. Meanwhile, the Russian government delivers retaliatory strikes over EU sanctions against German, Dutch and other European diplomats who are being banned from visiting Russia. Nord Stream 2 yes or no - its a yes, as it seems, the Germans have already indicated that they will not change their stand even after Biden's inauguration -, this cannot hide that Russian-German relations are as bad as they have ever been since WWII. And they should be that bad. Pacta sund servanda for existing treaties - but new treaties and deals between Germany and Russia, or the EU and Russia, really are in no way wanted or needed, and I cannot see this changing any time soon. Not under Putin. It may change - or not! - once we know who comes after Putin. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-29-20 at 11:27 AM.

12-29-20, 11:53 AM	#187
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,806 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	The russian government (or better Putin) does not deliver "retaliatory" strikes by banning diplomats, the western answer to his provocation and assasssination attempt was retaliatory. What Putin did and does is unilaterally attacking and killing of inconvenient persons all over the world. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

12-29-20, 12:20 PM	#188
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Dont give this a twist again, I think you know very well what I said and how I meant it. Of course the Western sanctions are legitimate, though not effective. And of course a Russian Retourkutsche, or retaliation if you want, was to be expected sooner or later. The Kremlin is a bit too heavy as if it needs to just sit put and presenting a target. The question is to what degree Germany or the EU are willing to ecalate it, considering their own light weight. Moralising alone does not change the reasoning of the brutal offender. And a German operational ready state of military platforms and carrier systems of less than 40% while telling the public and NATO HQ it is above 75%, does not raise one's own credibility to be determined to deter the other if he chooses to mount more robust threats. That moscowphile and extremely radical pacifists have hijacked the SPD helm, does not help either. No further expansion of relations and trade probably is the only thing that Germany really can do (and loosing a lot of moeny in that). If we would have better relations to Washington I maybe would even consider to stop NS2, it would deliver Russia a sting (for which it would seek retalation again), but as things stand right now, these relations are detoriating as well, with our lacking military committment in NATO we give Washington no reason to trust or respect us, nor does Washington give us any reason to trust and respect it in return - not after the past couple of years. With Biden, the tone will become more polite again: but not the substance of things. The EU is on its own. We should trust neither Russia, nor America anymore, nor China (and not Turkey anyway...) Merkel unfortunately puts a lot of trust into China, still. German illusions of how relevant one is. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-31-21, 11:17 AM	#192
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Navalny, victim of Putin's agents using nerve poison, returns to Russia, he's arrested. His wife arrested. His brother arrested. Over a thousand people demanding democracy in Russia, arrested. Subways and buses stations closed, restaurants and bars closed. How long until the security forces under Putin's order get tired of attacking their friends and neighbors? Mass arrests in Russia of protesters demanding Navalny's release

01-31-21, 12:37 PM	#193
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,574 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	What I wonder is Are Russia heading towards a civil war like situation ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-31-21, 01:29 PM	#194
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,080 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	At least one source is claiming 4000 have either been detained or arrested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55876033 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!