Very Disturbing Christian Website

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Interesting. Religious people "uncritically believe what the high priests say". They don't make a personal decision to put their faith in a deity - oh, no. They're always brainwashed or duped.

Unfortunately this happens often. Not to all religious people but some religious groups almost demand blindness. As I already said I've some Jehovah Witnesses in my family. Believe me you can't even talk with them about that. I once pointed out my thoughts about the story of the creation to them (can be found a few posts above). There only answer was that it can't be that way because the bible tells a different story.

To me the bible is no proof at all. It's just a book that was written by human beings, not by god.
They have never questioned the bible and it's contend and are believing in it blindly.

As I already said this is not a phenomenon among all religious people (I would even think that they are a minority) but those who don't question at all are the dangerous ones because they can be manipulated in every way their leader wants to.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Interesting. Religious people "uncritically believe what the high priests say". They don't make a personal decision to put their faith in a deity - oh, no. They're always brainwashed or duped.

I mean every word of it. Religion and spirituality are mutually exclusive, and since religiosity means a club membership in the flock of sheep (and spirituality means a most personal, non-public experience and way of life that does not depend a single bit on what institutions try to force down your throat), club members alias relgious people are pretty much beolieving something, anything, no matter what, indeed - no matter what it is, no matter how mind-bending, laws-of-nature-offending, absurd. "I believe" - in other words: all cosmos revolves around me.

Well, I believe the sky is green and the grass is blue. If I say that in public, and make it known to everybody at every opportunity, then it is my relgion, and since there is freedom for relgious practicing, you have to tolerate that, and respect my religion. But if I remain silent about this my precious belief, and keep it for myself, you must not worry about it, and will not care, and you even will not know if I believe that nonsens indeed, or believe something different, or nothing - it must not be your concern.

Believing is not knowing. But the absence of knowledge is taken as an aergument why one should believe even more passionately. Ridiculous. Laughable. Dumb. But these people cry wolf every time an evil wicked slimey atheists complains about them trying to force down their religious dogmas on society, and press them into public education systems, and even say that who does not believe in a god shall not have a right to call himself a real American, in clear violation of the principles on which the USA were founded, and that had not much, if anything, to do with Christian relgion - or any other. but do not agree with this agressive acting of theirs, maybe even copy their aggressive behavior in setting up your resistance to them - and they immediately complain about being discriminated and attacked.

Pah. Keep your religious beliefs to yourself, everybody. you are not anybody's problem as long as you do not start to missionize and try to make others being like you. And if you cannot show that self-restraint and maybe even call it your foolish religious duty not to do so - don't be surprised if you take occassional Flak from people defending against you - in legitimate self-defence.

Believing - systematically taking serious hear-say, untested and unproven stories, chinese whispers played since generations, started by people who did not experience what they first were telling tales about. You can build temples, you can be a priest, and you can follow rites and cultic rituals - it does not chnage anything in that you still do not know. You are obsessed by voices in your head, and you do like they tell you. -Clever!

Keep thy religion to thyself - no matter what religion it is. what you believe or not is of no concern for anyone else than you. Keep it there.

[August]

Keep thy religion to thyself - no matter what religion it is. what you believe or not is of no concern for anyone else than you. Keep it there.

Skybird try following your own advice.

[Tchocky]

Come on, August.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Come on, August.

How many times has he said he hates religion on this board in recent months? 50? 100 times already? The contempt and intolerance he constantly displays with his rabid brand of athiesm toward religious people is starting to go way beyond the realm of polite discussion.

[Tchocky]

Contempt and intolerance?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...2&postcount=40

Also

I have little use for anyone who doesn't believe in some form of higher power than themselves. I have found that such people tend to be self serving, untrustworthy and often with an axe to grind against those who don't share their lack of beliefs. The nature of the beast i guess.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to make such posts, by all means say what you think, but at least consider the hypocrisy involved when telling others to be quiet.

[Skybird]

Just this, for illustration. One illustration of many possible.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm

[DeepIron]

How many times has he said he hates religion on this board in recent months? 50? 100 times already? The contempt and intolerance he constantly displays with his rabid brand of athiesm toward religious people is starting to go way beyond the realm of polite discussion.

I agree with August. This is a recurring theme in Skybird's posts concerning "religion" or "discussions of faith"... I think it's very hypocritical to deride a "religious" conviction then espouse one's own brand of "anti-religious" sentiment...

I do not consider myself "Ridiculous. Laughable. Dumb." because I admit that there are things I don't understand and prefer to put my faith in God. Nor does it mean that I "blindly" accept Biblical teachings at face value. We are to "test and question" our faith constantly.

Just this, for illustration. One illustration of many possible.

And your point is what exactly? That G. W. Bush (the last man on Earth I would defend BTW) has an opinion? Is his any more valid than yours? It would appear to me that his "tolerance" towards atheists is about on par with your tolerance towards "believers".

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Contempt and intolerance?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...2&postcount=40

Also

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to make such posts, by all means say what you think, but at least consider the hypocrisy involved when telling others to be quiet.

Oh please. Have you even read his post? Isn't he saying exactly that, telling religious people to be quiet?

Y'know you're awful quick to jump on me Tchocky but I never see you pointing it out when he does it. Besides I never said people aren't entitled to express their opinions like he has, but before you try to hit me with the hypocrite stick again try counting how many times each of us has said something like that. You've got, what, two examples there? One obviously made in jest, but I can point out dozens Skybird posts where he uses words like "Ridiculous. Laughable. Dumb", "obsessed by voices in your head", "flock of sheep" (to provide examples from just one post).

[Tchocky]

Now that I think of it, the sheep comment should be a compliment. Lord is my shepherd, and all that.

As a general note, I don't think hypocrisy is relative, depending on how many times someone posts something. Sure, I doubt any regular poster has a definite, clear-cut record on thread after thread, but we should be able to deal with posts in a more dignified matter than "follow your own advice". Arguing that religion should be a private voluntary matter is rather different than telling someone to shut up.
I might be jumping on you, this thread had new posts marked in it, so I read them.

I think that in a thread about religion, you're going to get personal opinions. Some of which, due to the rather zero-sum nature of belief, will make some people angry.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, we agree again on this. I would prefer the way Sailor Steve once put it both so simple and so convincing: I have no problem with anybody who does not raise problems to me. what colour somebody paints the walls inside his home in is not interesting for me. Just when he starts to trying to force me to sit there, or pushing it down my throat that I have to paint my own walls the same way, or when he tells me at every damn opportunity how great it looks, and that nothing looks better and that he cannot understand how others could paint their walls in different colours - that is when I start growling.

This is where ridiculous, dumb, sheep, etc come into it. Telling religious types not to force their beliefs on others.

@ DeepIron - the link describes a statement of the elder Bush, George HW Bush.

[DeepIron]

@ DeepIron - the link describes a statement of the elder Bush, George HW Bush.

Gads, this father/son thing again...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

I agree with August. This is a recurring theme in Skybird's posts concerning "religion" or "discussions of faith"... I think it's very hypocritical to deride a "religious" conviction then espouse one's own brand of "anti-religious" beliefs...

There also is a recurring theme with some others who claim the right to act according to their opinion and "faith" when letting everybody know time and again that they believe in God, that God is great, and how it functions that everything will be fine if only people would believe in God and bla and this and that and etc. you see, I do not start these debates anymore, since quite some time now. but I react to such postings, becaseu letting them go by unopposed and simply tolerate that somebody else makes imeprative statements and demands that he is left untoiuched and unopposed would maybe not violate his principles - but mine. And I do not see him having more rights to demand tolernace, than I have here.

Keep thy religion to thyself. What exactly is so difficult to understand in that? What is so unreasonable in that? and on the other hand: if somebody disrespects that, and claims the right to let everybody know about his shining religiosity, or gives the impression that his religion should be taken for granted and being excluded from the separation of state and church - how could you expect other people not to hold him responsible for saying so, and letting him know their own opinion on his opinions for which he claims to demand special status?

I do not consider myself "Ridiculous. Laughable. Dumb." because I admit that there are things I don't understand and prefer to put my faith in God.

Don't quote me out of context. I said that in direct reference to people who simply believe what their churches and priests have told them, and there are very very many of these. If you have not come to your religion simply because your parents told you to be like this and not like that, and if you have not come to your relgion not because a social habit of visiting church and listening to what the priests have told you since years, okay. This still leaves us in dispute on wether your conclusions ares reasonable, or not, but the point is - we must not debate your views, and simply can let it rest, no problem, as long as you do not try to impose them on others, directly, or indirectly. just where you would decide to show your views at every opportunity or try to convince others of them, I and people like me may reserve the right to object and hold you responsible for what you say, and fight you back, becasue we do not want to join your camp and do not want to see society being underminded by you ideology. Because were I have no right to demand you to follow my views of the world, you also have no right to demand the same in return for yourself.

Nor does it mean that I "blindly" accept Biblical teachings at face value. We are to "test and question" our faith constantly.

Well, fine, do that, you want to test and question, which pretty much is an empirical approach and thus a method of reason, and as long as this process is open and not predetermined in it's outcome by the dogma of your faith, I encourage and congratulate you on your chosen path. But relgion does not want you to exmaine and find out yourself: it wants you to submit to its dogma by believing what you are being told to believe. Your reasonable approach, and relgion, are excluding each other. You cant have both: believing and reason. So, only when you start asking "why is it that my faith is true?" and claim this predetermined way of fake-examination to be reason or faith, and where you come to conclusions that next you want to enforce on society, on policy-making etc, you and me would get communication problems.

I see disucssions in favour of this or that relgion's rights very much according to the polluter-pays-principle. If somebody pumps up the volume of his radio way too much, it is up to him to turn it down again. If somebdy does not force me to listen to why he believes this and that, I must not have any motivation to clearly tell him why I don't give a damn for his sermon and why I want him to stop.

In other words: God speaks so silent that you can hear him monly when using headphones anyway. And with using headphones, no neighbour will complain about the program you are listening to. Keep thy religion to thyself - it is that simple indeed. Pollute the whole block with your noise, and sooner or later deal with complainers with angry faces. they are not the problem then - you are the problem without which they would not be there.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Now that I think of it, the sheep comment should be a compliment. Lord is my shepherd, and all that.

As a general note, I don't think hypocrisy is relative, depending on how many times someone posts something. Sure, I doubt any regular poster has a definite, clear-cut record on thread after thread, but we should be able to deal with posts in a more dignified matter than "follow your own advice". Arguing that religion should be a private voluntary matter is rather different than telling someone to shut up.
I might be jumping on you, this thread had new posts marked in it, so I read them.

I think that in a thread about religion, you're going to get personal opinions. Some of which, due to the rather zero-sum nature of belief, will make some people angry.

This is where ridiculous, dumb, sheep, etc come into it. Telling religious types not to force their beliefs on others.

@ DeepIron - the link describes a statement of the elder Bush, George HW Bush.

So in other words you don't have a problem when he's intolerant. Ok gotcha.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Now that I think of it, the sheep comment should be a compliment. Lord is my shepherd, and all that.

Ha! At least one man detected my sense of irony there! Exactly that reference was on my mind.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ha! At least one man detected my sense of irony there! Exactly that reference was on my mind.

Yeah right.