US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Bilge_Rat]

interesting take on the Flynn affair.

Eli Lake is a fairly liberal writer and usually anti-Trump so I was surprised by his analysis:

The Political Assassination of Michael Flynn

(...)

A better explanation here is that Flynn was just thrown under the bus. His tenure as national security adviser, the briefest in U.S. history, was rocky from the start. When Flynn was attacked in the media for his ties to Russia, he was not allowed by the White House to defend himself. Over the weekend, he was instructed not to speak to the press when he was in the fight for his political life. His staff was not even allowed to review the transcripts of his call to the Russian ambassador.

There is another component to this story as well -- as Trump himself just tweeted. It's very rare that reporters are ever told about government-monitored communications of U.S. citizens, let alone senior U.S. officials. The last story like this to hit Washington was in 2009 when Jeff Stein, then of CQ, reported on intercepted phone calls between a senior Aipac lobbyist and Jane Harman, who at the time was a Democratic member of Congress.

Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do.

In the past it was considered scandalous for senior U.S. officials to even request the identities of U.S. officials incidentally monitored by the government (normally they are redacted from intelligence reports). John Bolton's nomination to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations was derailed in 2006 after the NSA confirmed he had made 10 such requests when he was Undersecretary of State for Arms Control in George W. Bush's first term. The fact that the intercepts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak appear to have been widely distributed inside the government is a red flag.

(...)

Flynn was a fat target for the national security state. He has cultivated a reputation as a reformer and a fierce critic of the intelligence community leaders he once served with when he was the director the Defense Intelligence Agency under President Barack Obama. Flynn was working to reform the intelligence-industrial complex, something that threatened the bureaucratic prerogatives of his rivals.

(...)

In normal times, the idea that U.S. officials entrusted with our most sensitive secrets would selectively disclose them to undermine the White House would alarm those worried about creeping authoritarianism. Imagine if intercepts of a call between Obama's incoming national security adviser and Iran's foreign minister leaked to the press before the nuclear negotiations began? The howls of indignation would be deafening.

In the end, it was Trump's decision to cut Flynn loose. In doing this he caved in to his political and bureaucratic opposition. Nunes told me Monday night that this will not end well. "First it's Flynn, next it will be Kellyanne Conway, then it will be Steve Bannon, then it will be Reince Priebus," he said. Put another way, Flynn is only the appetizer. Trump is the entree.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...-michael-flynn

[Oberon]

So it's not that he broke the rules that's bad, it's that he was caught.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So it's not that he broke the rules that's bad, it's that he was caught.

The narrative there is simple - evill establishment undermines Trump by attacking his staff. So it is not about the person in question being cought it is about the information about it being leaked as a way to undermine Trump.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

The narrative there is simple - evill establishment undermines Trump by attacking his staff. So it is not about the person in question being cought it is about the information about it being leaked as a way to undermine Trump.

True, but what about questions of transparency? I mean, look at the wikileaks emails scandal, many would argue that it was a good thing that we had that look into the framework of a potential presidential candidate, even though it was incredibly damaging to the Clinton campaign, and therefore in a flipside, it must be good that we have a look into the framework of the president of the United States even if it is damaging to him.

[Skybird]

The truth maybe is simplier than most think. Trump has arranged a band of biting dogs around him, and dogs bite dogs. That easy. Flynn was assassinated by parts of Trump's team rivalling for and with his position of national security adviser. - However, there is no loss. None of the people Trump has collected in his circle would be worth to shed tears about them going amiss. Also, if youremember, Trump managed to bring the intel apparatus up against him short while ago. Just walking into Langely and tell the cameras that the CIA is great, does not cut it if you have made your own staff and intel service your enemy. There are four dozen secret services in the US, I think. And some of them now maybe think they have some bills to settle with their boss.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

The narrative there is simple - evill establishment undermines Trump by attacking his staff. So it is not about the person in question being cought it is about the information about it being leaked as a way to undermine Trump.

Poor Trump. Clearly the most maligned president in our history. I am sure he will build a safe area in the white house.

The media really needs to have trigger warnings for Trump.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The truth maybe is simplier than most think. Trump has arranged a band of biting dogs around him, and dogs bite dogs. That easy. Flynn was assassinated by parts of Trump's team rivalling for and with his position of national security adviser.

Really? I'd be interested in the details of that story.

[Skybird]

Priebus versus Bannon, Bannon versus Priebus, Pence versus both - that is no secret. And that are just the most obvious sharks biting around. The team Trump has build, is chaotic, and driven by very amibitioned personal power agendas, many of them are political amateurs including Trump himself, the pressure build by Trump to achieve as many perceived "successes" in as shortest time as possible has caused the White House to accept making itself many new enemies in the bureaucratic and diplomatic structures that every government depends on (except Trump's, of course, thinks Trump) and has caused chaos and Trump scoring several defeats already. Even law enforcement says the wall will not work. The car prodruction and sales policy chnages he demands, will not work. His fiscal basis is under fire by Japan and China. The immigration ban gets burried by the courts. None of his decrees so far, put onto the screen with plenty of macho and posing a la Putin, has the substance to last or to cause lasting effects, its all a smoke screen, a short-living fireworks so far. - As I said some weeks ago: Trump will mean most perfect soap entertainment, and many cups, discs and windows getting broken. I have ordered an abonement for popcorn, in daily XL-size boxes.

Trump is like a small boy having seen some Hollywood movies about Rome and about Al Capone, and now thinks if he acts with those poses and gestures, he would become a second Caesar or Al Capone. If he could, he would have blond bombshells in short skirts forming his secret service, and on parades he would throw gold coins out of his rolling car'S window. That is governing for him.

Nobody does it like Hollywood. Washington, I mean.

He will get bogged down - by instiotutions, by the establishment, by his own party that he dispises anyway, since he knows no political loyalties at all. The republicans are about to realise that currently - that he is NOT one of them.

Putin is learnign the lesson currently, too, it seems. There is said to be some excitement in the Kremlin since Trump demanded that the Crimean must go back to the Ukraine. That was not what the Tzar has hoped for, I'm sure.

An opponent not knowing how to play chess, will not play by the rules, sinc ehe cannot play by the rules - he does not know them. Masters can occasionally get surprised by the chaotic moves these dilletantees then put on the board and that are beyond all calculation, are random chaos. And that is what happens to Putin currently.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Flynn was assassinated by parts of Trump's team rivalling for and with his position of national security adviser. .

Originally Posted by Skybird

Priebus versus Bannon, Bannon versus Priebus, Pence versus both - that is no secret.

None of those people are being considered for the position of national security adviser. Most likely candidate is Vice Adm. Robert S. Harward.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

He will get bogged down - by instiotutions, by the establishment, by his own party that he dispises anyway, since he knows no political loyalties at all. The republicans are about to realise that currently - that he is NOT one of them.

These 'Republicans' are Members of Congress. They have to get re elected at some point. The representatives in less than two years. Being seen as opposing programs that their elected President wants to implement will not sit well with the voters who elected him. It's politics 101.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

None of those people are being considered for the position of national security adviser. Most likely candidate is Vice Adm. Robert S. Harward.

Its not about owning the seat Flynn was sitting on. Its about having his views no longer getting in their ways. Very old game in the WH: the place of warrying departments and functions and offices. - And Trump never was a Republican by conviction, it means nothign to him, its all just sound and shadow to him. Trump is a business man, a deal maker in his own words, an opportunist. Do not be fooled by his party membership - it means NOTHING. Not before he became POTUS (he repeatedly changed his party membership, four times so far, whenever he had legal problems he entered the party that at that time was most likely to be of use to him), and not now while he is POTUS. There is only one party Trump is loyal to - himself, his businesses, maybe his family and their deals. Everything else is just show.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...And Trump never was a Republican by conviction,

I think that is one of the reasons why he was elected.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Donald Trump

If Obama is concerned about the border, he should stop vacationing. Gov't will save millions which it can use to stop illegal migration.

Guess it's a good thing that Donald would never dream of going to a resort he owns three times in a month at a multi-million dollar expense to the taxpayer. That would be incredibly hypocritical.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Guess it's a good thing that Donald would never dream of going to a resort he owns three times in a month at a multi-million dollar expense to the taxpayer. That would be incredibly hypocritical.

As long as he has his phone with him, I don't see a problem.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Priebus versus Bannon, Bannon versus Priebus, Pence versus both - that is no secret. And that are just the most obvious sharks biting around. The team Trump has build, is chaotic, and driven by very amibitioned personal power agendas, many of them are political amateurs including Trump himself, the pressure build by Trump to achieve as many perceived "successes" in as shortest time as possible has caused the White House to accept making itself many new enemies in the bureaucratic and diplomatic structures that every government depends on (except Trump's, of course, thinks Trump) and has caused chaos and Trump scoring several defeats already. Even law enforcement says the wall will not work. The car prodruction and sales policy chnages he demands, will not work. His fiscal basis is under fire by Japan and China. The immigration ban gets burried by the courts. None of his decrees so far, put onto the screen with plenty of macho and posing a la Putin, has the substance to last or to cause lasting effects, its all a smoke screen, a short-living fireworks so far. - As I said some weeks ago: Trump will mean most perfect soap entertainment, and many cups, discs and windows getting broken. I have ordered an abonement for popcorn, in daily XL-size boxes.

Trump is like a small boy having seen some Hollywood movies about Rome and about Al Capone, and now thinks if he acts with those poses and gestures, he would become a second Caesar or Al Capone. If he could, he would have blond bombshells in short skirts forming his secret service, and on parades he would throw gold coins out of his rolling car'S window. That is governing for him.

Nobody does it like Hollywood. Washington, I mean.

He will get bogged down - by instiotutions, by the establishment, by his own party that he dispises anyway, since he knows no political loyalties at all. The republicans are about to realise that currently - that he is NOT one of them.

Putin is learnign the lesson currently, too, it seems. There is said to be some excitement in the Kremlin since Trump demanded that the Crimean must go back to the Ukraine. That was not what the Tzar has hoped for, I'm sure.

An opponent not knowing how to play chess, will not play by the rules, sinc ehe cannot play by the rules - he does not know them. Masters can occasionally get surprised by the chaotic moves these dilletantees then put on the board and that are beyond all calculation, are random chaos. And that is what happens to Putin currently.

Someone in Germany has bought the Democrats' caricature of Donald Trump as comic book villian and fool. Someone in Germany is about to learn a lesson. Some great administrators create a chaotic environment because that is how they feel comfortable. Hospital emergency rooms are such places. The right personality type is very effective there. It is not proper to accuse them of lunacy. Someone with orderly thought processes and a high regard for procedure would die there. Brilliance comes in many different flavors. It is not German to think in that way, but it is correct.

Watch what people accomplish. Don't watch their style for clues on their effectiveness. Particularly, don't underestimate someone whose management style differs from that you are familiar with. Trump has been underestimated and impugned at every step. He has been victorious at every step.

Sometime or other, those who do not understand him should stop, watch and perhaps learn.

I'm reminded of an American racecar driver who enrolled in a German driving school for a certain track in Germany. The German instructors lead eveyone around the track on foot pointing out zis is vere you brake, turn in here, apex of the turn is here.....etc for every turn on the track. The American, of course, ignored all of the jabbering but read the track for himself. When they went out to actually run the track, the American was a full second faster than all the other students. And the German instructor was lecturing him on how he didn't know how to run the track because his brake points, turn in points and apexes weren't according to his expert instruction. Never occurred to the instructor to stop, watch and learn.