ImprovedConvoys Beta and UnRealUBoat - Udated: 03-25 - Page 12

NZ_Wanderer · 07-26-05, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonb885

Single ship traffic in '39 and '40 is somewhat more than under RuB, but still far less than the stock campaign. Convoys are more rare in '39 and in '40, but are as frequent as in the original game in 41-45. I'm still tuning the radio contact reports for convoys and spawn frequency.

Sure wish I could have the new convoys but keep the stock single ships

- The 20/20 part of rub is the only thing in that I don't put in cause I like to find lots of single ships...

NZ_Wanderer · 07-26-05, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

The question is, do we go for the 'Girlyman' (hehe) solution and tone down both extremes in the name of playability, or do we say 'what the hell' and go for the most realistic sim we can get, and damn the consequences? I prefer the latter, but I'm willing to accept the former.

Ok, I still trying to catch up, so the decision has probasbly already been made on this, but I thought I would throw my 2c worth in anyway...

I Personally would prefer playability..

Having something as realistic as possible is going to turn most "gamers" off, spoil the playability for the greatest majority of those left, while only catering for a select few that "have" to have things as realistic as posssible...

It's soret of a pity that you can't have 2 releases.. 1 for playability and one for "REAL" - that way people themselves could choose

Beery · 07-26-05, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ_Wanderer

Having something as realistic as possible is going to turn most "gamers" off, spoil the playability for the greatest majority of those left, while only catering for a select few that "have" to have things as realistic as posssible...

RUb has always been squarely aimed at players who value realism, and who believe that realism gives the best playability. For these players what's realistic is automatically the most playable because when you add arcade elements it makes the game give unrealistic and ahistorical results and thus reduces the fun value. RUb is the REAL U-boat mod, not the Playable U-boat mod. There are other mods (e.g. the UNreal U-boat mod) for players who want less realism, and anyway, so far RUb must be doing something right in terms of balancing realism and playability in the way we have done, because it's currently the most popular mod for the game.

In short, RUb is never meant to be most popular, but the fact that it is must mean that realism is more playable than most people seem to think.

Duli · 07-26-05, 10:49 AM

I agree with you, Beery. I am really looking forward to the RuB 1.43 mod.

jasonb885 · 07-26-05, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ_Wanderer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

The question is, do we go for the 'Girlyman' (hehe) solution and tone down both extremes in the name of playability, or do we say 'what the hell' and go for the most realistic sim we can get, and damn the consequences? I prefer the latter, but I'm willing to accept the former.

Ok, I still trying to catch up, so the decision has probasbly already been made on this, but I thought I would throw my 2c worth in anyway...

I Personally would prefer playability..

Having something as realistic as possible is going to turn most "gamers" off, spoil the playability for the greatest majority of those left, while only catering for a select few that "have" to have things as realistic as posssible...

It's soret of a pity that you can't have 2 releases.. 1 for playability and one for "REAL" - that way people themselves could choose

I think Beery described the current scenario quite well. Real U-Boat is all about the realm.

Myself, personally, I don't take it that far. For me realism and playability aren't synonymous.

In either case, I can't verify IC against some One True Playability Test (tm) to verify it's too hardcore, too software, or just right. I played some missions and it seemed okay, to me. Everyone else will have to decide for himself.

If it passes Beery's true realism test, I guess it'll end up in RuB. If not, it'll always be available as a separate mod for anyone that's interested.

In short, my goal is realism within the realm of playability. I have to personally enjoy myself for it to be released, since I use it myself. If someone suggests additional realism, I'lI add it. If i like it, then it's in. If not, then it's not.

(You should've seen that last paragraph before I edited it. It was insanely nonsensical. I typed something like I want realism, even if it's not playable and stuff, just by mistyping a few words. Wow.)

NZ_Wanderer · 07-26-05, 01:41 PM

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a bit of reality, it's just I like the playability as well.
That's why when I get the versions of rub, I go through the documentation with an eagle eye and then only install whats going to make things good for me.
I think from memory the last install I only left out the file that had the 20/20 thing in, the plotting mod, hollywood mod, water mod and the guns changes.. Everything elkse I put in

jasonb885 · 07-26-05, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ_Wanderer

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a bit of reality, it's just I like the playability as well.
That's why when I get the versions of rub, I go through the documentation with an eagle eye and then only install whats going to make things good for me.
I think from memory the last install I only left out the file that had the 20/20 thing in, the plotting mod, hollywood mod, water mod and the guns changes.. Everything elkse I put in

Then you're in trouble.

IC includes realistic single ship reduction, at least, as best as I could make it. You'll see a reasonable number of single merchants in '39 and limited convoy action. In '40 you will still see some single merchants, but fewer. In '41 and beyond, save the U.S. coast, you won't nearly ever see a single merchant.

Just fyi.

Wulfmann · 07-26-05, 05:26 PM

I was not going to release my RND file but as I read this it seems it may be much more different than improved convoys mod. That is while I reduced the single ships by about 50%, there are going to be many many more than in yours. I have had patrols where I have not seen a ship in 1943 going or coming. I have had 1941 patrols where I have spotted 4 or 5 ships going out but usually about 1 or 2. I didn't think about that as I felt we were doing the convoys similar with you leaning to my escorts and I following you on the merchant ships. But, the single traffic might make mine an alternative to more in that area but still much less than stock. I remember doing a couple missions with IC and spent 2-3 hours watching my icon at 1024TC and then coming home. It is certainly real as just look at Kretschmer's score early and you can see he did nothing patrol after patrol. That may be real, but is also no fun.
But, UBoatRealsim may not want them as I am not a memeber of the Naxi party (No-Access-X-I) LOL
Wulfmann

R48 · 07-26-05, 06:00 PM

Wulfmann,

I'm interested in trying your RND. Did you increase the skill of early war escorts and patrols? I thought I read that you did this. I'd be interested in this.

jasonb885 · 07-26-05, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R48

Wulfmann,

I'm interested in trying your RND. Did you increase the skill of early war escorts and patrols? I thought I read that you did this. I'd be interested in this.

Just keep in mind Wulfmann reports CTDs often. He edits his RND layer by hand.

Mine is all scripted using a programming language. I haven't had a CTD since I resolved the last major bug in my application to generate RND layers two months ago.

Not a dig against Wulfmann, just fyi. Nothing more frusturating than a crash during a good patrol.

R48 · 07-26-05, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Nothing more frusturating than a crash during a good patrol

.

I didn't know his RND might cause a CTD. I've never had one since I got SH3.

jasonb885 · 07-26-05, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R48

Quote:

Nothing more frusturating than a crash during a good patrol

.

I didn't know his RND might cause a CTD. I've never had one since I got SH3.

It may not. It's possible it's fully functional at this point.

I just see him post often about CTDs and such.

NZ_Wanderer · 07-26-05, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonb885

Then you're in trouble.
IC includes realistic single ship reduction, at least, as best as I could make it. You'll see a reasonable number of single merchants in '39 and limited convoy action. In '40 you will still see some single merchants, but fewer. In '41 and beyond, save the U.S. coast, you won't nearly ever see a single merchant.

Ouch... That I'm afraid would take the playability out of it for me.. - I like seeing the single ships in the game, I don't always attack them but it's good to have them there incase I decide to

sdcruz · 07-26-05, 10:57 PM

I must attest that using Jasons IC mod - i have NEVER had a CTD - Good work jason!!

Regards
Shelton.

Wulfmann · 07-27-05, 07:07 PM

Actually the only CTD I have had was the AI_Sensor mod and once Beery sent me the fixed version my RND has been flawless for about 100 patrols. I have run patrols from Sept 39-Dec 1944 so maybe there is something in 1945 I am not aware of yet

Still Jason's is more historically accurate in the single ships. I ran two patrols in a row and made no contacts on either so revived making myRND with more single ships but far less than stock. Matter of choice

But you shouldn't trust me, I am a troll!!! LOL

Wulfmann

07-26-05, 10:49 AM	#169
Duli Planesman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Novo mesto, Slovenia Posts: 198 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I agree with you, Beery. I am really looking forward to the RuB 1.43 mod. __________________

07-26-05, 05:26 PM	#173
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I was not going to release my RND file but as I read this it seems it may be much more different than improved convoys mod. That is while I reduced the single ships by about 50%, there are going to be many many more than in yours. I have had patrols where I have not seen a ship in 1943 going or coming. I have had 1941 patrols where I have spotted 4 or 5 ships going out but usually about 1 or 2. I didn't think about that as I felt we were doing the convoys similar with you leaning to my escorts and I following you on the merchant ships. But, the single traffic might make mine an alternative to more in that area but still much less than stock. I remember doing a couple missions with IC and spent 2-3 hours watching my icon at 1024TC and then coming home. It is certainly real as just look at Kretschmer's score early and you can see he did nothing patrol after patrol. That may be real, but is also no fun. But, UBoatRealsim may not want them as I am not a memeber of the Naxi party (No-Access-X-I) LOL Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

07-26-05, 10:57 PM	#179
sdcruz Loader Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 84 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I must attest that using Jasons IC mod - i have NEVER had a CTD - Good work jason!! Regards Shelton. __________________ MORS OMNIA VINCIT

07-27-05, 07:07 PM	#180
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Actually the only CTD I have had was the AI_Sensor mod and once Beery sent me the fixed version my RND has been flawless for about 100 patrols. I have run patrols from Sept 39-Dec 1944 so maybe there is something in 1945 I am not aware of yet Still Jason's is more historically accurate in the single ships. I ran two patrols in a row and made no contacts on either so revived making myRND with more single ships but far less than stock. Matter of choice But you shouldn't trust me, I am a troll!!! LOL Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

07-26-05, 01:41 PM	#171
NZ_Wanderer Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 127 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a bit of reality, it's just I like the playability as well. That's why when I get the versions of rub, I go through the documentation with an eagle eye and then only install whats going to make things good for me. I think from memory the last install I only left out the file that had the 20/20 thing in, the plotting mod, hollywood mod, water mod and the guns changes.. Everything elkse I put in

07-26-05, 06:00 PM	#174
R48 Loader Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 86 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Wulfmann, I'm interested in trying your RND. Did you increase the skill of early war escorts and patrols? I thought I read that you did this. I'd be interested in this.