"Fury" - Movie. Bollywood Boycott Time again

[ikalugin]

What categories do you include in those millions murdered by Stalin?

The difference (a very important one) is that Soviets never had a requirement for physical removal of -different- populations and this is because those populations could be converted (in fact that was the original revolutional plan). Sure there was prosecution for political reasons (one of my relatives was executed in 1937 and other went into the camp) and deaths due to mismanagement, but none of those were about systematic extermination of the -different-population and thus were less horrible in that respect.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

What categories do you include in those millions murdered by Stalin?

Categories ? Stalin was a pure antisemite. But he also killed anyone else he did not "like", for whatever reason. So it is well-known that Stalin did not like jews. But the jews are not the only ones, though Stalin killed millions of them, too.
Have you heard about Alexander Solzhenitsyn?
Maybe you should read this, for a change:

http://www.ukemonde.com/genocide/margolisholocaust.html

"When war came, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and British PM Winston Churchill allied themselves closely to Stalin, though they were well aware his regime had murdered at least 30 million people long before Hitler's extermination of Jews and gypsies began"

I sometimes think it is funny, how England condemned the Hitler-Stalin pact, with their intention to divide Poland between them (calling both mass murderers), but then instantly declared war against .. Germany.
Of course, the 'treaties' England is so proud to present, only included a GERMAN attack against Poland. So they quickly aligned with the other mass-murderer, who had already killed roughly 30 million people, until the beginning of WW2.

After all it may be good for Germany that it happened this way, otherwise we would have a national-socialist Germany, and a democratic Russia... (highly cynical here, sry)

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

...and deaths due to mismanagement, but none of those were about systematic extermination of the -different-population and thus were less horrible in that respect.

Are you kidding me ??
Mass murder is mass murder. Period. There is no shades of gray in mass murder, there's only black. Less horrible does not exist outside movie plots.

[Feuer Frei!]

And here we go:
the ONLY reason Hitler gets the limelight again and again for being the biggest baddie of them all is NOT how many he indirectly, or directly allegedly had killed.
So if we want to compare pure numbers, we must take Hitler out of the equation, simple fact.

It is really that simple.

Had Hitler done what Stalin did, ie let his people starve, sent dissidents to the gulag, never to be seen again, waged internal wars against any and all that wouldn't or didn't follow his maniacal views, well, Hitler wouldn't even be mentioned with his measly alleged 6 million.

They were both Dictators.
Dictators do what Dictators do. Some rack up a kill count higher than others. Much higher.
Stalin gets the gong for that one.

Of course when you are the victor, then we don't need to discuss that do we.
The lies and fantastical, almost mythical stories told about certain allied leaders and certain ways in which they and their minions waged war and ultimately, and inevitably of course, won, are great reads or listens.
Makes for a can of coke and pop corn night. Good entertainment.
Unless of course you don't believe the propagandist tripe that Victors more often than not dish out to the sheep, who lap it up almost blindly, in the view that their saviours are heroic little angels who saved the world from evil.
If only it was as clean and as moral as we are led to believe.

Of course you wouldn't know otherwise, if you believe everything you read and see.


OT.

[Feuer Frei!]

Holocaust denial

I see you are at it again.

Putting words in my mouth.


Welcome to the party.
Better late than never eh

You haven't seen the movie i take it.
Shame, there's a lot of entertainment there.

Edit: And it's not often (thank god) i link daily fail but:
Never mind Fury in the Ardennes, there's also Fury in Poland:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Holocaust.html

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Wow crazy nationalism drifting into holocaust denial.
Must of been one hell of a movie to set you off so much Feuer Frei

He's not denying holocaust. Not even drifting in.
He's just angry about the chewed up, patriot fap plot of Hollywood WW2 movies about the evil Germans and their shallow black and black portrait without any hint of deeper historical research.
Very very angry

[STEED]

Back on subject..I saw a snip it of this film and a interview with old Brad and put two and two together and came up with this looks like rubbish.

OK back to what you lot were talking about...

[ikalugin]

Have you heard about Alexander Solzhenitsyn?

Anyone actually believes in what he said? Or do you think that 1/3 of Soviet population died during the Soviet rule from Stalinist oppression, and 2/3 of the rest were sitting in Gulags?

After all it may be good for Germany that it happened this way, otherwise we would have a national-socialist Germany, and a democratic Russia... (highly cynical here, sry)

I think in 70 years the General plan Ost would be completed if not more. So I doubt that if USSR would have lost there would be Russia in 2014 (or democratic UK for that matter). You do remember who carried the majority of war effort on the Eastern front, don't you?

Mass murder is mass murder. Period. There is no shades of gray in mass murder, there's only black. Less horrible does not exist outside movie plots

They do, if Hitler have won then 90+ percents of Polish population would have gone by 1991 (as an example). Did same happen during USSR? No.

his measly alleged 6 million

I guess one could apply double standards and forget about the what happened to Slavs in WW2, Soviet POWs and other non Jewish categories of people etc.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

When people throw the word "allegedly" in they are.

Now, see, i knew you'd twist that allegedly into your way of thinking. Or rather assuming.
To make it clear for you, i used the word allegedly in the context of the number is continuously being revised.
There you have it. It's all about context and in your case, assuming and out of context.
Next.

Plus of course his nationalist blindness means he can't see that Hitler did all those things he says he didn't do.

No blindness going on. Ie no denial. Ie no disputing that something went on. Ie you are basing your assumptions on taking my words out of context and assuming i am denying the holocaust.
Next.

[Feuer Frei!]

@ikalugin

there are of course many instances where not just the Poles were suffers of the 'Russian Repression'.
Or The great purge.

Katyn massacre comes to mind as an example.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

@ikalugin

there are of course many instances where not just the Poles were suffers of the 'Russian Repression'.
Or The great purge.

Katyn massacre comes to mind as an example.

Sure Katyn did happen (execution of PoWs in general), however does it really compare to the targeted removal of Polish population by NAZI regime with 90 percent target?

I mean if Stalin (and Soviet regime) was as bad as Hitler (and NAZI regime) then chances of me arguing with a Polish forum member would be slimmer shall we say, after 44 or so years of Soviet hold over the Eastern Europe.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Polish people complaining about the reality of Polish history

really?

Please, do tell us about the reality of Polish history.
I bet you're an expert in this field.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by kranz

really?

Please, do tell us about the reality of Polish history.
I bet you're an expert in this field.

I guess you would rather not exist due to the extermination of Polish population I guess.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I mean if Stalin (and Soviet regime) was as bad as Hitler (and NAZI regime)

Was? Now now, Иосиф was the heavy weight of murderers in ww2.
If we are just talking about the removal of Poles:
As for targeted removal of Poles by the Nazis, well, do you really think that when Nazis invaded Poland in September that the Poles, looking behind them, thought that they were safe with Иосиф?
Of course not.
Stalin had his own plans for his half of the Poles.

That is a well-known fact.

[ikalugin]

So did Soviets have a program for physical removal of 90 percent of Polish population? How many Polish were murdered by Soviets (compared to Germans)?

Or do you deny existence of General Plan East?