Malaysian Airlines MH317 - Page 12

TarJak · 08-11-14, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

In something less conjectured: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-1...rposes/5660686
This will be interesting to watch play out.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...kraine/5664050

Russia sends in humanitarian aid to Eastern Ukraine. Have to question how the supplies medical or otherwise are kept out of the hands of belligerents.

mapuc · 08-11-14, 04:50 PM

There are things I do not understand

When other subsim members post conspiracy stuff we laugh at them at most, but in this thread I see member sharing things that is or looks like conspiracy stuff.

As Tarjak wrote let us wait until the official report is at hand. then we can discuss it.

Markus

AngusJS · 08-11-14, 05:50 PM

So the Ukrainians somehow misidentify a 2 engine Boeing that has flown over the length of the country for a 4 engine Ilyushin that looks nothing like it.

They don't pause to wonder why Putin would be flying over a war zone.

They don't consider what the disastrous consequences of killing off the leadership of the Russian Federation would be for them.

So they scramble not an interceptor, but the Su-25 ground attack plane, with a service ceiling 3000m below MH17, to do the job.

Then they simply fake the recordings and the web posts of the rebels saying that they shot down the plane.

Oh, and they get US and other Western intelligence to go along with their story.

Yeah, sounds legit.

Jimbuna · 08-12-14, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusJS

So the Ukrainians somehow misidentify a 2 engine Boeing that has flown over the length of the country for a 4 engine Ilyushin that looks nothing like it.

They don't pause to wonder why Putin would be flying over a war zone.

They don't consider what the disastrous consequences of killing off the leadership of the Russian Federation would be for them.

So they scramble not an interceptor, but the Su-25 ground attack plane, with a service ceiling 3000m below MH17, to do the job.

Then they simply fake the recordings and the web posts of the rebels saying that they shot down the plane.

Oh, and they get US and other Western intelligence to go along with their story.

Yeah, sounds legit.

Some would have you believe.

TarJak · 08-12-14, 09:47 PM

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...ountry/5666910

This appears top be playing out predictably.

Oberon · 08-12-14, 10:01 PM

Indeed, just as expected really, score one for Moscow, pulling the old 'humanitarian convoy' trick, just like Turkey did with Israel a while ago.

Is this a prelude to the Russian military going in to insure that the aid reaches the population? Hard to say.

TarJak · 08-13-14, 12:34 AM

And will Ukraine or NATO try to stop them? I agree with the wish for the International Red Cross to be the party handing out the aid and not the Russian military. No problem using their trucks and transport, but without supervision who knows what will go to whom?

Jimbuna · 08-13-14, 07:32 AM

A positive step for Putin, who knows the west are trying to juggle too many balls at the same time.

This is his opportunity to prove he is being honest and forthright but on the other hand it is also an opportunity to make this the first step in annexing East Ukraine.

Skybird · 08-14-14, 04:50 AM

Kiev's Nazi auxiliaries:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...paratists.html

And on the first picture, that guy named "Phantom", wears a contemporary German uniform jacket called "Flecktarn". How do they get German Bundeswehr uniforms?

TarJak · 08-14-14, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Kiev's Nazi auxiliaries:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...paratists.html

And on the first picture, that guy named "Phantom", wears a contemporary German uniform jacket called "Flecktarn". How do they get German Bundeswehr uniforms?

Doesn't seem that hard to do: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_kw=b...ecktarn+jacket
http://www.hessenantique.com/Bundesw...hing_s/635.htm

Skybird · 08-14-14, 06:01 AM

Yes, I was about something else. Why getting such stuff from several countries away, when camouflaged uniforms can be most likely gotten in your closest vicinity? I assume where there is one guy wearing Flecktarn, there are many others as well.

But okay, not the most important of details...

TarJak · 08-14-14, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, I was about something else. Why getting such stuff from several countries away, when camouflaged uniforms can be most likely gotten in your closest vicinity? I assume where there is one guy wearing Flecktarn, there are many others as well.

But okay, not the most important of details...

Maybe because they are Nazi's they like German stuff for some reason? I see your point though. Could just be that one guy also.

Skybird · 08-15-14, 10:15 AM

German media report that Ukrainian military forces have directly engaged Russian units that were reported to have entered Ukraine in the darkness of the night. Several of the attacked Russian armoured personnel carrier should have been destroyed. British reporters claimed last night that a convoy of two dozen armoured troop carriers entered the Ukraine at night, with soldiers and vehicles displaying national Russian colours and emblems.

If this gets confirmed, it could be the beginning of a formal Ukrainian-Russian war. In this case, such a war maybe will no longer be limited to the Eastern part only.

At the last count, NATO claimed that Russia had some 45 or 48 thousand troops in "combat-ready" status near the border.

Edit:

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...ee-Konvoi.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...-a-986396.html

Ukrainian artillery should have destroyed "a significant share", in other formulations "the better share" or "most of" the Russian column.

Meanwhile the foreign minister of Latvia claims not just two dozens, but over 70 Russian vehicles moved into the Ukraine last night, loaded with equipment and military supplies.

Oberon · 08-15-14, 01:24 PM

Correlated on British media, Ukraine is also withdrawing any and all peacekeepers it has in service on UN missions internationally.

Meanwhile on the other side of the border:

Skybird · 08-15-14, 01:58 PM

Situation remains unclear and mysterious. There is no confirmation so far for that Russian IFV convoy passing the border last night, also Russia denies that it happened, and also denies that it has lost any unit in said artillery strike by the Ukrainians.

Kiev on its behalf so far does not give any evidence for its claims that were raised by the Ukrainian president's website first..

So...

It is possible that it is just a propaganda lie, much like the events staged by Saakashvili in Georgia 2008 to trigger a NATO intervention. I doubt that Russia would just not react at all if Ukrainian artillery just wiped out several of its armoured troops transports.

It'S also possible that it happened. In which case I still expect a Russian, and substantial military response, even if it is a delayed one. Absolutely possible that Putin tries to provoke a Ukrainian attack on some of Russia'S forces - to get a military excuse to go all in.

08-13-14, 07:32 AM	#173
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,645 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A positive step for Putin, who knows the west are trying to juggle too many balls at the same time. This is his opportunity to prove he is being honest and forthright but on the other hand it is also an opportunity to make this the first step in annexing East Ukraine. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-14-14, 04:50 AM	#174
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,660 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Kiev's Nazi auxiliaries: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...paratists.html And on the first picture, that guy named "Phantom", wears a contemporary German uniform jacket called "Flecktarn". How do they get German Bundeswehr uniforms? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-14-14, 06:01 AM	#176
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,660 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yes, I was about something else. Why getting such stuff from several countries away, when camouflaged uniforms can be most likely gotten in your closest vicinity? I assume where there is one guy wearing Flecktarn, there are many others as well. But okay, not the most important of details... __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-15-14, 10:15 AM	#178
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,660 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	German media report that *Ukrainian military forces have directly engaged Russian units* that were reported to have entered Ukraine in the darkness of the night. Several of the attacked Russian armoured personnel carrier should have been destroyed. British reporters claimed last night that a convoy of two dozen armoured troop carriers entered the Ukraine at night, with soldiers and vehicles displaying national Russian colours and emblems. If this gets confirmed, it could be the beginning of a formal Ukrainian-Russian war. In this case, such a war maybe will no longer be limited to the Eastern part only. At the last count, NATO claimed that Russia had some 45 or 48 thousand troops in "combat-ready" status near the border. Edit: http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...ee-Konvoi.html http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...-a-986396.html Ukrainian artillery should have destroyed "a significant share", in other formulations "the better share" or "most of" the Russian column. Meanwhile the foreign minister of Latvia claims not just two dozens, but over 70 Russian vehicles moved into the Ukraine last night, loaded with equipment and military supplies. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-15-14 at 10:30 AM.

08-15-14, 01:58 PM	#180
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,660 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Situation remains unclear and mysterious. There is no confirmation so far for that Russian IFV convoy passing the border last night, also Russia denies that it happened, and also denies that it has lost any unit in said artillery strike by the Ukrainians. Kiev on its behalf so far does not give any evidence for its claims that were raised by the Ukrainian president's website first.. So... It is possible that it is just a propaganda lie, much like the events staged by Saakashvili in Georgia 2008 to trigger a NATO intervention. I doubt that Russia would just not react at all if Ukrainian artillery just wiped out several of its armoured troops transports. It'S also possible that it happened. In which case I still expect a Russian, and substantial military response, even if it is a delayed one. Absolutely possible that Putin tries to provoke a Ukrainian attack on some of Russia'S forces - to get a military excuse to go all in. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-11-14, 04:50 PM	#167
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,541 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	There are things I do not understand When other subsim members post conspiracy stuff we laugh at them at most, but in this thread I see member sharing things that is or looks like conspiracy stuff. As Tarjak wrote let us wait until the official report is at hand. then we can discuss it. Markus

08-11-14, 05:50 PM	#168
AngusJS Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 746 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	So the Ukrainians somehow misidentify a 2 engine Boeing that has flown over the length of the country for a 4 engine Ilyushin that looks nothing like it. They don't pause to wonder why Putin would be flying over a war zone. They don't consider what the disastrous consequences of killing off the leadership of the Russian Federation would be for them. So they scramble not an interceptor, but the Su-25 ground attack plane, with a service ceiling 3000m below MH17, to do the job. Then they simply fake the recordings and the web posts of the rebels saying that they shot down the plane. Oh, and they get US and other Western intelligence to go along with their story. Yeah, sounds legit.

08-12-14, 09:47 PM	#170
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...ountry/5666910 This appears top be playing out predictably.

08-12-14, 10:01 PM	#171
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Indeed, just as expected really, score one for Moscow, pulling the old 'humanitarian convoy' trick, just like Turkey did with Israel a while ago. Is this a prelude to the Russian military going in to insure that the aid reaches the population? Hard to say.

08-13-14, 12:34 AM	#172
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	And will Ukraine or NATO try to stop them? I agree with the wish for the International Red Cross to be the party handing out the aid and not the Russian military. No problem using their trucks and transport, but without supervision who knows what will go to whom?

08-15-14, 01:24 PM	#179
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Correlated on British media, Ukraine is also withdrawing any and all peacekeepers it has in service on UN missions internationally. Meanwhile on the other side of the border: