Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged) - Page 12

JU_88 · 10-03-12, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I'd be inclined to agree with Ju-88, Turkey is quite a formidable force on its own, and whilst it's bombing Syria it's not looking at Greece or Cyprus. I think it knows not to expect any help from NATO, but since Russia and China will be trying to put UN motions in place to sanction Turkey I'd wager that the UK and US will be quick to veto them, so Turkey knows we have their back in the UN, which is...well...where it matter least I guess.

It's certainly an interesting escalation...question is, will Iran decide to up the ante in its support to Syria if the Turkish go 'all in'?

Oh I dont think they are too worried about any shenanigans from the Greeks, they have enough on their plate as it is.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 10-03-12, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Militarily speaking, Turkey is quite a force to be reckoned with, I dont suppose they will even need to request any U.N assistance all that desperately.

I understand. I don't mean anything related to UN but strictly NATO's own "attack against one, is attack against all" principle. If Turkey request NATO assistance can Western nations deny it without undermining whole idea of NATO? In other hand if USA and Co. agree then its "big evil America (and Western infidels) messing with others business" again.

EDIT: To clarify: I'm not thinking from military perspective but from PR one. What it looks like?

JU_88 · 10-03-12, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I understand. I don't mean anything related to UN but strictly NATO's own "attack against one, is attack against all" principle. If Turkey request NATO assistance can Western nations deny it without undermining whole idea of NATO? In other hand if USA and Co. agree then its "big evil America (and Western infidels) messing with others business" again.

EDIT: To clarify: I'm not thinking from military perspective but from PR one. What it looks like?

True, I dont know, The impression I get of the U.S and UK is that with the exception of a few war mongering hard liners, they really, really dont want to get involved in Syria. (Cant say I blame them) If they do, I expect it will be with a great degree of reluctance, its especially complicated with the likes of Russia pushing the other way.

Stealhead · 10-03-12, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I hope so too. As Turkey is NATO member (atleast in theory) conflict between Syria and Turkey would also be conflict between Syria and UK, Syria and USA and so on. Something I would like to avoid.

Turkey is a member of NATO no theory to it they have been a member for some time.Turkey has been part of NATO since 1952.

Not sure why you have doubt about their standing. They are in on the missile defense shield.

Oberon · 10-03-12, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

True, I dont know, The impression I get of the U.S and UK is that with the exception of a few war mongering hard liners, they really, really dont want to get involved in Syria. (Cant say I blame them) If they do, I expect it will be with a great degree of reluctance, its especially complicated with the likes of Russia pushing the other way.

In a situation like this I'd wager that the US/UK would put forward the theory that Turkey shot first, thus nullifying the NATO agreement. Alternatively, they will provide covert support to Turkey on the agreement that it will not call for public support from NATO.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 10-03-12, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Turkey is a member of NATO no theory to it they have been a member for some time.Turkey has been part of NATO since 1952.

Not sure why you have doubt about their standing.

I don't have doubt whether Turkey is member or not but whether NATO members will respect request for military assistance in remotely possible case that Turkey request it.

Jimbuna · 10-03-12, 04:25 PM

According to the news a few moments ago Turkey have not gone down the Article 5 route but down that of Article 4 which only invokes consultation between NATO members.

Stealhead · 10-03-12, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I don't have doubt whether Turkey is member or not but whether NATO members will respect request for military assistance in remotely possible case that Turkey request it.

According to CNN NATO said that they would if asked.

Only thing is if Turkey does go in how will Iran react to it?

Karle94 · 10-03-12, 05:13 PM

Greece won`t touch Turkey and vice versa, both are NATO members and if they do something, they`ll have hell to pay. Also, Greece can`t fund enough troops to do anything any way.

August · 10-03-12, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

In a situation like this I'd wager that the US/UK would put forward the theory that Turkey shot first, thus nullifying the NATO agreement. Alternatively, they will provide covert support to Turkey on the agreement that it will not call for public support from NATO.

I'd think it would be kind of hard to claim that Turkey shot first when they're replying to a mortar attack that killed civilians.

soopaman2 · 10-03-12, 05:18 PM

Turkey does not need the UK or US help. They are actually quite competent military wise.

They just need to be left alone while they handle their business.

TLAM Strike · 10-03-12, 05:21 PM

Iranian and Russian "advisors" reported in Syria, a supposed sighting of an IRIAF F-5 and now the Turks fire shots across the border.

Stealhead · 10-03-12, 05:33 PM

Turkey has a decent military but at the same time I have seen it in action while on TDY to Incirlik AB they have interesting methods.

In my experience with Turkish troops some are pretty good but some are pretty meh and seem to lack any military bearing at all. Not sure how strong their discipline is to be honest it depends on what they are fighting for and if they are for it or not.I heard in Korea that they liked to go out at night and infiltrate enemy lines and cut off communist heads but they wanted to that I am betting because communists are atheists and therefore infidels so they can be nasty if you inspire them.

They also fire warning shots at the ground between your legs as a rule rather than into the air sometimes they "miss" and that is against just some derp Turk getting too close to the base.

TLAM Strike · 10-03-12, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Turkey has a decent military but at the same time I have seen it in action while on TDY to Incirlik AB they have interesting methods.

They also fire warning shots at the ground between your legs as a rule rather than into the air sometimes they "miss" and that is against just some derp Turk getting too close to the base.

Yea I bet they were real nasty about defending Incirlik as that is where we stationed all the "special weapons" designated for their air force's use.

soopaman2 · 10-03-12, 06:16 PM

Just put them on a plane, and tell them they are invading Cyprus.

Motivation problem solved.

10-03-12, 04:25 PM	#172
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,320 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	According to the news a few moments ago Turkey have not gone down the Article 5 route but down that of Article 4 which only invokes consultation between NATO members. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-03-12, 05:13 PM	#174
Karle94 The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Norseland Posts: 1,355 Downloads: 253 Uploads: 0	Greece won`t touch Turkey and vice versa, both are NATO members and if they do something, they`ll have hell to pay. Also, Greece can`t fund enough troops to do anything any way. __________________ Find my mods here: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lzgciodldp58p/SH4_Mods My SH4 blog here: http://karle94.blogspot.com/

10-03-12, 05:18 PM	#176
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Turkey does not need the UK or US help. They are actually quite competent military wise. They just need to be left alone while they handle their business. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

10-03-12, 05:21 PM	#177
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Iranian and Russian "advisors" reported in Syria, a supposed sighting of an IRIAF F-5 and now the Turks fire shots across the border. __________________

10-03-12, 06:16 PM	#180
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Just put them on a plane, and tell them they are invading Cyprus. Motivation problem solved. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

10-03-12, 05:33 PM	#178
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Turkey has a decent military but at the same time I have seen it in action while on TDY to Incirlik AB they have interesting methods. In my experience with Turkish troops some are pretty good but some are pretty meh and seem to lack any military bearing at all. Not sure how strong their discipline is to be honest it depends on what they are fighting for and if they are for it or not.I heard in Korea that they liked to go out at night and infiltrate enemy lines and cut off communist heads but they wanted to that I am betting because communists are atheists and therefore infidels so they can be nasty if you inspire them. They also fire warning shots at the ground between your legs as a rule rather than into the air sometimes they "miss" and that is against just some derp Turk getting too close to the base.