Jungmanns Die Hard Project ALPHA (CHECK 1st post)

This sounds VERY promising Jungman!

[Jungman]

Thanks, still working on it. It changes alot of stuff. Making the Uboat Hull have a higher HP and lowering the Armor level lets the Uboat have more internal disasters without whiping out the hull in two seconds. IE the damage penetrates to the interior more, so on the surface you will be shot just as easy, but more damage will go to internals instead of the external hull.

Now the hull does suffer becuase the hull armor was lowered to make up for its higher health points. Similar to what gouldjg did for the comparments inside the Uboat already, it is just doing for the hull to get more internal hits instead of a two second death screen from a shell hit (or DC hit) whiping off the hull.

I am looking at reducing the the crew repair time by reduction in qualification in Basic.cfg. I cut it in half and I find it sems to work much better. This number as you know from the Damage Contol changes, affect repair ability. At the same time, it affects the crew ability to run the boats compartment hand in hand also.

I find you can go quite lower without destroying the crew's ability to run things. It makes qualification more important. Instead of taking four non-qualified seaman to run the engine room minimum, it will take six. Or just one qualified and two extra seaman. This will tie up more crew to get the Uboat to run 100% (plus Officer bonus). Only ahighly skilled and ranked crew can run 100% (whatever that means). But it does cut repair rate ALOT.

So if a DC hit the engine room, unles you have 8 men maximum to fit in there and no qulified officer or pety officer, it wil take four times longer to repair than normal. And only a qualification of machinist can make this better.

I do find it seems the higher points with reduced armor lets more damge pints to be done. But its limit is the DC damge size. It maybe be better to increase the DC charge blast to get more HP damage to systems so you can get repair times in hours.

But I do not want to unbalance this yet due to unintended consequences. Yeh I know, alot of stuff going on here and the testing is so slow.

[Marhkimov]

YEah, we don't want to unbalence the game too much. Just let the testers give you their own opinions once you release the mod.



But are you still making the sonar changes? or making changes so that those destroyers are a little less accurate? As I understand it, destroyers should be doing damage by the volume of DC's that are dropped. IMOH, they should drop SH*T loads of inaccurate DC's, rather than a few accurate ones...

[Jungman]

But are you still making the sonar changes? or making changes so that those destroyers are a little less accurate? As I understand it, destroyers should be doing damage by the volume of DC's that are dropped. IMOH, they should drop SH*T loads of inaccurate DC's, rather than a few accurate ones...

Yes another one to get around to. Alot of hex editing. making more so to escape by going deep under sonar via oRGy idea. But using real life numbers and some gameplay changes.

Plus maybe might change the DC model as you say. For a more exciting game. Only late war sonar should go the full 300 meters deep. Type 147A. You can have a stronger Uboat and regular 40m raduis to simulate a 'barrage'.

[baxter]

Sounds great, Jungman. I think this will an entirely new aspect to the game...and a lot more suspense.

[gouldjg]

Sounding great so far Jungmann.

Look at what the majority of people want, release a teaser and then build the ultimate model, which also includes realistic ship battles etc.


Most people would be more than happy with a few more balanced floods, a bit more complicated damage and a little higher hit points to slow things down that little bit but not too much. They will then be happy to wait longer for your masterpiece.

I know what it is like to crawl through .zon files and then zones.cfg and now crew and maybe DC zon files.

All this is obviously needing a lot of testing to try and get a balance so it is maybe a good idea to get a simple version out first and have 50 testers do some work for you.

I would however prefer the flooding and floatability to be more balanced so that a player can decide whether or not to come out of silent running to fix this.

I have hex edited and played with this a little and from my first impressions not all, that much needs changing for many players to start enjoying the vast difference to the stock game or Hollywood mods.

The main problem for me was the direct straight line of five DC that you go right into and the instant death after though in reality this was probably true.

Now I can at least survive for a few minutes longer and sometimes even survive the whole ordeal with escape. Either way it is just thrilling

Bye the way, I want to try your harder 150 arc DD sensor fix, the RUB version is just a tad too easy to slip.

I should not be slipping 3 DD unless God was a crew member or I worked strictly by mathematics and time.

Is there also anyway you can make DD stick around that area some more once they have lost you or better still give them a better search routine.

I just want to get as close to possible the later 8-12hr hour ordeals.

I actually prefer the medal effectivness decrease if it does have dramatic effects on repairs.

All in all good luck

Why are you reading this when you should be working :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Jungman]

I want to try your harder 150 arc DD sensor fix

That is called SonarDC_20. Its blind spot is only 150m so the DD can bite you harder (RuB is 200m blind). And the DC blast is set for 20m instead of the smaller 15m in RUB. Stock is 40m blast radius and no blind spot.

DD crews come in Recruits to Elite for enemy AI. (0 to 4).

I am also making up a (with the idea from oRGy) the depth search is limited in early war sonar to very good late war. So it will give you a reason to go deep to get under the sonar maybe to escape. else why take the chance? It will be good to know what month and year it is, so you know which DD types had what sonar installed at the time. Knowledge will help your decision.

So in the early war sonar, they are blind by 200m, later in war that number will be less to 100m, and finially for the Type 147A sonar: lets say you do not more than one DD over you or else extremely difficult to escape without a good Uboat and luck.

Plus at random the crew of DD is from recruits to veteran and elite. This determines the AI smartness in campaign (random) and mission (set from the scenario start -look for it on the start screen). Elite crews are very hard to escape from.

[oRGy]

Good stuff so far Jungman, I like it.

For the latest version of IuB I've changed the sonar (asdic) as to your historical data. Seems to work well. The DC radius and blind spot are as per RuB though I may change this for the future.

I also eliminated Poor (level 0) crews, replacing them with novice (level 1), and eliminated Elites (with a couple of exceptions) from the SCR layer. (replaced with veteran) As I think level 0 crews are way too useless, and Elite too uber.

[Jungman]

For the latest version of IuB I've changed the sonar (asdic) as to your historical data. Seems to work well. The DC radius and blind spot are as per RuB though I may change this for the future.

Really, well that would save me the time to hex edit it. I am working alot of time getting a new damage and repair model working. It is coming along.

I think that data is pretty close to all the reading off the net I could find, and keeping gameplay in mind. You were not that far off the mark earlier. Is it ready for download? I might as well test it while doing all this other damge modeling / crush depth death scenes.

As for the DD blind spot, the only thing I would add is to make the early war 200m as it is now, then give the later war and or other sonar a less blind setting to a minimum of 100m, and maybe give the type 147A zero blind spot if not going to use Elite crews.

Maybe even the passive DD sonar can be nerfed some below 200m to 300m maximum also. This all adds up to giving the player a reason to chance going deep to escape several DD above them by going deep getting under the sonars, especially if they are Elite/Veteran. Of course that assumes you have the deep water and not caught in the shallows such as the English Channel.

I use a version with the shorter blind spot 150m for all and larger 20 meter radius. I am so experienced at the game, I need the extra challenge.

[Jungman]

gouldjg (or others who wish to try) here is an alpha version to use with the type VIIC only.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6812504/D...ha_7c.rar.html

I reduced the petty and officer's qualification effect by 25% plus the change to the Damage Control room interval 10/30.

Additionly changes to the sub compartments similiar to any Zones.cfg to its end.

The extra Health Points for the 7c was doubled, the armor level lowered from 25 to 10 to balance it out. No going 'mano y mano' with a DD on the surface. The HP allow for a longer hull while sinking and DC barage, instead you have more system damage and failures.

I did not change floatation in Zones.cfg, I want the sub to start sinking if flooding becomes heavy, the other changes to this critical floatation ( by other mods) makes the sub unrealistically resistant to sinking from flooding.

Having a qualifed and rank crew is very important in order to get decent repairs. So spend renown on a ranked crew. Try it at different years on the U-505 mission.

Repairs and station effeciency go hand in hand. This means low ranked and unqualified crew will need some more to work a room. Engine room example takes 6 seaman, whereas a cheif Sr. Petty officer with machinist qualification can do the work of three seaman. A middle ground cheif petty can do the work of two seaman.

This helps to stretch out the repairs. The only place I can see with intervals giving a decent bonus, is the torp room. Minimum amount to load, then time is cut down by half about 66% then at 100% it is shorten some more.

The radio room I need to adjust some to get 100% with fully ranked and qualifed crew.

Only the Damage Control Team can repair the rest quarters. their is no self repair from crew there.

I am not mesing with crew fatigue for this (which obviously can make it even harder to repair via causing bow torp/engine room and such to have a higher fatigue rate and step ala gouldjg work).

[Jungman]

Has anyone notice that setting the realistic repair time option before start of game seems to make no difference in speed of repairs?

I think this is bugged, it is always set for fast repair no matter what you choose?

[Marhkimov]

I have the atmospheric mod up my sleeves, but I'll still take your alpha model for a spin! Yeeehaaaw!!!

So, i tested it so far and was hunted by 3 VW Destroyers, all elite.

the first 2 attackruns wasnt dangerous at all, but the third was a good hit. i was at 100m and 2-3 DC´s exploded maybe 10m above my sub. instantly i had heavy flooding in 3 compartments and severall subsystems like batteries, fuelbunker, rudders, screws, PUMPS (oh shi+!) and the compressor damaged, the periscopes were destroyed, later the whole tower.

i lost 75% of my fuel, until i repaired the bunkers (dunno how the crew made that but...ok :hmm: )
my boat was still strong flooding, 3 minutes left till death, 3 to fix. i was too slow, and too heavy, o i was sinking till 168m (my hull was at ca. 60).

this was the first time since SH2 that i really was afraid to die because of flooding! you may remember, i tried to fix that damage stuff by myself in the zones.cfg, but not with this results.

i guess this mod will be one of the most important ever created for sh3...

[gouldjg]

Jungman

Can you tell me what you have tested on i.e. vanilla or RUB?

[gouldjg]

Hi Jungman

I like the changes but it is this fatigue issue that is causing me more concern. I just feel as though I have to now recalculate all my fatigue settings to accompany the coef settings and new qual changes. Are we confident other Fatigue makers will be so forthcoming and are we sure other players will be happy to wait for all tweaks to be made?

Have you not thought about just taking the armour right down to 5 on a 700hp for sub.

Then set all compartment armour to 5 also

Then raise all hp on equipment,

Then set men defence at a higher level (not their hp but the protection factor above)

[DAMAGE]
OpenComp=1
PartiallyOpenComp=0.5
EnclosedComp=0.1 (Change this to a more resilient figure)

I would consider using the crush depth randomiser and I would also have sinking but not as fast as rub and not as slow as Vanilla.

I find it best to set average compartment at between 25 to 35 flotation.


I have thought long and hard on this whole issue and think it is really best to seperate the 2 even though we may lose some minutes of extra repair.

You can always release a basic.cfg that will intensify the damage model at a later date.

I think that we should leave fatigue models alone whilst the damage is being tweaked.

Seperate it totally

Remember you warned me about too much thinking on the fatigue issue when it come to damage and I now think your right.


What you have provided is a way to prolong the innevitable (great news and fantastic work)

What we should be doing is creating a damage mod that will compliment any future or past sensor tweak i.e. your DD and DC tweaks.

This should be able to go well on all games RUB, IUB, Vanilla, and for those who choose bits of each.

If you think it will work then bye all means go for the combination. I am just afraid that it will kill itself off as it will cause people agro with fatigue model issues etc.

I suggest you carry on with your work till you get a full version ready for beta testers. Then I can test the full finnished product.

I like it, dont get me wrong. I have just spent days working out future crew models and to be honest I am just a bit put off on the basic cfg changes. (maybe that is because we see different angles on this).


Everyone can still change their fatigue to what they want or choose your fatigue which increases repair times.


This is just my first immpressions and I have only tried betat wice. So before I make any final judgements I am going to test some more over the weekend and report back on moday.

If my theory is wrong then I will be using your Die Hard when it is finnished.

If on the other hand I get good results that gives me a good time then I will probably release My Hollywood version for you to check out.

I hope no offence is taken as I just see the whole damage issue in a different light than most people.

Realistic and Gamey (it maybe is not posible to get both)

P.s. Have you and Orgy decided on what is happening on the varying depths issues with regards to DC.

I think if you can simulate different deph ranges as per year then you are cooking something hot.

Chat soon