Arizona Congresswoman Shot in the Head at Public Event - Page 11

Freiwillige · 01-09-11, 03:26 AM

Yea oddly enough photo's of him seem to show what what most would assume was a nice young man. Musical, Smart and polite. But the warning signs were there that his sanity was slipping. Myspace and youtube accounts point to a very troubled person spilling into the realm of nonsensical!

It is sad that he lost grip of reality and people had to die for it.

Aramike · 01-09-11, 04:15 AM

Okay, I just read most of this thread and feel compelled to insert my two cents due to absolute outrage. Quite frankly, it'll only be a function of typing over speech that expletives don't make an appearance:

People, a CONGRESSWOMAN is most likely near death, and a FEDERAL JUDGE is dead - that is a NATIONAL TRAGEDY, not political talking point.

In case you Americans trying to assign blame to any certain ideology, perhaps it escapes you that we have an electoral process designed to PEACEFULLY settle disputes on leadership according to Constitutional guidelines. The idea that ANY American would, rather than mourn the loss, prefer to draw parallels with ANY American, PEACEFUL movement is DISGUSTING, and those people should be ashamed of themselves. The fact that there are those of you who can't pause even a day in consideration of such tragedy is precisely the problem in a peaceful political process which causes DIVISIVENESS and ultimately, extremism.

Ask any extremist - they have plenty of facts to back up their views. The problem is that they twist the facts in order to justify foregone conclusions rather than examining said facts as a method of drawing such conclusions. And that is EXACTLY what I see happening by certain people in this thread.

Despite what you think about this Congresswoman's views, she's a duly elected representative of the people, and her opinions are permitted by the same Constitution which allows you to openly share yours. The same thing goes for those who are opposed to her views. The idea that either means a damn when one or two lunatics decide to engage in such atrocities is absurd and petty, and speaks volumes about the character of those who'd engage in such speculation, especially with no information or evidence supporting such claims.

Un-freakin'-believable.

Gerald · 01-09-11, 06:48 AM

Authorities said they are not convinced one person was behind a shooting rampage at a town hall-style event Saturday in Tucson, Ariz., that left six dead, including a federal judge, and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who police said was the target of the attack.

Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, from the Pima County Sheriff's Department, said in a statement that a second person was seen at the location of the shooting, and was possibly associated with the suspect in custody. The person was described as a Caucasian male with dark hair, approximately 40-50 years old, who was last seen wearing blue jeans and a dark blue jacket.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...-public-event/

Note: Update record, Published January 09, 2011

Armistead · 01-09-11, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Okay, I just read most of this thread and feel compelled to insert my two cents due to absolute outrage. Quite frankly, it'll only be a function of typing over speech that expletives don't make an appearance:

People, a CONGRESSWOMAN is most likely near death, and a FEDERAL JUDGE is dead - that is a NATIONAL TRAGEDY, not political talking point.

In case you Americans trying to assign blame to any certain ideology, perhaps it escapes you that we have an electoral process designed to PEACEFULLY settle disputes on leadership according to Constitutional guidelines. The idea that ANY American would, rather than mourn the loss, prefer to draw parallels with ANY American, PEACEFUL movement is DISGUSTING, and those people should be ashamed of themselves. The fact that there are those of you who can't pause even a day in consideration of such tragedy is precisely the problem in a peaceful political process which causes DIVISIVENESS and ultimately, extremism.

Ask any extremist - they have plenty of facts to back up their views. The problem is that they twist the facts in order to justify foregone conclusions rather than examining said facts as a method of drawing such conclusions. And that is EXACTLY what I see happening by certain people in this thread.

Despite what you think about this Congresswoman's views, she's a duly elected representative of the people, and her opinions are permitted by the same Constitution which allows you to openly share yours. The same thing goes for those who are opposed to her views. The idea that either means a damn when one or two lunatics decide to engage in such atrocities is absurd and petty, and speaks volumes about the character of those who'd engage in such speculation, especially with no information or evidence supporting such claims.

Un-freakin'-believable.

I'll agree with you regarding this case, but overall Americans now have total distain for government. You have to remember this nation was founded because people got tired of a government taxing them without representation. As we become a two class society because of a failed government, I'm afraid instead of nutjobs, you'll see desperate people doing terrible things. In fact they do, crime has risen in about every state due to unemployment.

Your seeing Americans just now, lil too late as usual, try to fight back legally as new parties pop up, like them or not. The problem is most Americans didn't pay attention to the slow ruination of our nation.

Congressmen are now getting death threats way over the norm over various issues. However, we are a divided nation and getting worse.
We hate our partisan government, but we are even worse as a people.

We have an armed popuation, the government had better start taking that into consideration as they ruin this nation. I think soon you'll stop seeing politicians amongst the people.

CaptainHaplo · 01-09-11, 09:50 AM

For the dead, the injured, and the families of the victims, my heartfelt prayers go out.

I am not going to read 11 pages of arguments - this goes beyond a letter by someone's name. Every one of the people hurt or killed was a husbamd, a wife, a mother or a father, a son or a daughter to someone. The violent actions of a deranged person against ANYONE - elected official or not, is a tragedy. The political views of the person are not important, they are a living, breathing human being. Its not about the one person - its about them all. Yes, the "elite" are getting more press, but that is the nature of the news cycle.

As for the alleged shooter, best thing the news could have done was not report his name or anything about him, simply state he is in custody and is being charged. Why give him noteriety? All to fill tv time.....

Platapus · 01-09-11, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

\
We have an armed popuation, the government had better start taking that into consideration as they ruin this nation.

I think that is a totally inappropriate statement to post on this forum.

From your post, it reads like you condone this attitude. I hope I am wrong. But I think that such wordings are inappropriate for this website.

I don't want to be a censure, but any talk of citizens using arms against our elected government deeply disturbs me.

Perhaps I am the only one who thinks like this. In that case, I will keep my opinions to myself.

Armistead · 01-09-11, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I think that is a totally inappropriate statement to post on this forum.

From your post, it reads like you condone this attitude. I hope I am wrong. But I think that such wordings are inappropriate for this website.

I don't want to be a censure, but any talk of citizens using arms against our elected government deeply disturbs me.

Perhaps I am the only one who thinks like this. In that case, I will keep my opinions to myself.

Read again, I replied to the previous poster saying that violence in no way applies to this case. I think it would be smart for our government to consider we have an armed population as they take this nation into ruin. I in no way said shoot people silly. But make no doubt about it, an armed population as ours that goe's into economic chaos is a dangerous situation the government had better start thinking about as they lead us into a two class system. Look at the riots in Europe, those happen here I dread to think what could happen.

If our government continues leading this nation down a road to destruction forcing americans into poverty to create an elite class don't think all hell wouldn't result...It won't be nut cases doing the shooting, it will be desperate people.

I take it the "could our nation go into civil war thread offended you", but why I don't think that's possible or even an armed revolution , people that were once law abiding may feel the need to strike back.

Have you not watched the news or listened to politics the last year...You have politicians making statements "americans resorting to their second amendment rights" Even yesterday all politics, every one blaming everyone.

We can never assume or let our government assume they have the right to rule us with no regard. For the most part they do that now, but it would be dangerous for us all if they do. We best not forget for good or bad almost every government came to power through revolution and failed the same way. My fear is for my kids. I see a day where politicians hide behind walls why who knows what happens to the rest of us.

My post in not condoning...it should be an obvious warning. Would I ever fight back...yea, if total anarchy took over or they tried to disarm me.

GoldenRivet · 01-09-11, 12:07 PM

there is a time when armed insurrection is the only option.

we've not reached that point in America by a long shot.

I don't think that this morons attempt on the representative's life was meant to be some sort of violent overthrow attempt... he is simply a nut.

i dont think that anyone has made a remark which supports this violence - or any violence for that matter.

I do think that Armistead makes a valid point though about the government being careful... threats of violence are 15 times higher than they have historically been, and there have been direct connections drawn between the moment there was an increase in threats and vandalism and the moment this health care bill became a major player.

surely to the God that democrats don't believe in - that fact alone sends congress a message.

another question:

is it truly an "elected government" when you are forced to vote for the candidate which will screw you most gently?

i dont remember ever once in my life voting FOR someone... only AGAINST someone else.

Armistead · 01-09-11, 12:36 PM

My point exactly. Government has always been corrupt to a degree. They even have detailed plans to protect who in case of total economic collapse...themselves. Since about the 60's politics changed, sure always heated, but politicians fought each other over the will of the people, today they serve special interest.

What happened to Gabby and those others shot is a crime of the worse kind. She actually seems to be someone half way decent trying to make change,.

I honestly don't think this nation could in fact have a revolution, even armed that could change things because we're such a melting pot of different idea's and people, but could we fall into a nation of chaos...we'd be fools to think it wouldn't happen. If that happens people will rightfully blame the government.

We do have many groups that would love to invade and toss out congress by force. These groups are growing by leaps. Heck, thousands of Americans die every year basically serving the greed of government. Heck, I would say our government is more crooked than the King we fought against to become a nation.

Our only future hope is elected officials change...but each cycle they become more partisan, more divided and use stronger language and wonder why these things happen. Maybe not so much this nut case, but death threats have increased 300% to government officials. They create such a climate of hate and partisanship to serve greed, well, you'd better expect these results. They can't act the way they do and serve special interest and then tell everyone else to love one another, pray and get along.

I pray I never see the day it all comes down to people shooting each other why government officials hide behind steel walls eating ribeyes and drinking fine wine. Most fail to see just one major event could place us there.

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

Skybird · 01-09-11, 01:21 PM

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

gimpy117 · 01-09-11, 02:23 PM

it is a scary thought skybird. guns are even being incorporated into political events. That scares me a little bit.

Aramike · 01-09-11, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

I can see your point, but I disagree. I think our system is designed very well to allow for heated and outright nasty discourse while keeping such events too far beyond the pale to be ordinary. Maybe it's simply because I'm old enough to remember far worse, but I think that modern media has the ability to magnify and personalize tragedy that we begin to look more deeply for its causes, and start to see things that aren't there.

breadcatcher101 · 01-09-11, 03:09 PM

No surprise there, Skybird.

Almost all of us, although many are armed, have no intent to inflict such carnage.

I for one am armed for defensive purposes only, not against the goverment but against the criminal elements we have here. My wife and family all know how to handle firearms myself ever since I was age 10.

We all target shoot for enjoyment, some of us hunt, and all are armed just in case you have a home invasion.

Being from the South, this act we speak of, trying to kill an unarmed woman who meant you no harm is unspeakable to us.

In the old days in these parts he would have been hanged and remembered as a coward for his deeds.

Today he will probably never be executed but kept locked up why others ponder his actions and wonder why.

goldorak · 01-09-11, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

Yes I have to say its quite astounding.
The US political discourse is very radicalized much more so than european ones, and yet homegrown terrorism, political terrorism as we have know in europe is extraordinarly rare. Maybe that will change as the US continues its way to a 2 way society, and a society were the concept of the american dream is all but dead. Some months they were talking about this on NPR. Very fascinating stuff, and to a certain extent its actually quite sad.

tater · 01-09-11, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often.

US politics is no more vitriolic now than it has ever been, and the availability of firearms is LESS than ever before in US history. Particularly "state of the art" military weapons. In the Adams Administration citizens could—and did—own every single item in the US military's possession. Even warships. Laws restricting even machine guns are very modern.

The lack of political violence in the US is in fact the norm, even with more weapons and bile floating around. Heck, Washington had the Whiskey Rebellion.

Bottom line is that 200 years of US political history demonstrates you are wrong. Violence sometimes happens, but more often than not it's by kooks, not some sort of definable political movement. And the kooks are roughly evenly divided in the spectrum (left slightly more than right, actually, on assassination attempts, least for executives and candidates). The assumption or thought that things now are worse, better, whatever than the past is frequently heard, but has no basis in fact. It's like polls to name the best presidents, "modern" guys always score as more important than they deserve.

01-09-11, 06:48 AM	#153
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Authorities Search for Second Man in Deadly Arizona Shooting Spree Authorities said they are not convinced one person was behind a shooting rampage at a town hall-style event Saturday in Tucson, Ariz., that left six dead, including a federal judge, and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who police said was the target of the attack. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, from the Pima County Sheriff's Department, said in a statement that a second person was seen at the location of the shooting, and was possibly associated with the suspect in custody. The person was described as a Caucasian male with dark hair, approximately 40-50 years old, who was last seen wearing blue jeans and a dark blue jacket. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...-public-event/ Note: Update record, Published January 09, 2011 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

01-09-11, 09:50 AM	#155
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	For the dead, the injured, and the families of the victims, my heartfelt prayers go out. I am not going to read 11 pages of arguments - this goes beyond a letter by someone's name. Every one of the people hurt or killed was a husbamd, a wife, a mother or a father, a son or a daughter to someone. The violent actions of a deranged person against ANYONE - elected official or not, is a tragedy. The political views of the person are not important, they are a living, breathing human being. Its not about the one person - its about them all. Yes, the "elite" are getting more press, but that is the nature of the news cycle. As for the alleged shooter, best thing the news could have done was not report his name or anything about him, simply state he is in custody and is being charged. Why give him noteriety? All to fill tv time..... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

01-09-11, 12:07 PM	#158
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	there is a time when armed insurrection is the only option. we've not reached that point in America by a long shot. I don't think that this morons attempt on the representative's life was meant to be some sort of violent overthrow attempt... he is simply a nut. i dont think that anyone has made a remark which supports this violence - or any violence for that matter. I do think that Armistead makes a valid point though about the government being careful... threats of violence are 15 times higher than they have historically been, and there have been direct connections drawn between the moment there was an increase in threats and vandalism and the moment this health care bill became a major player. surely to the God that democrats don't believe in - that fact alone sends congress a message. another question: is it truly an "elected government" when you are forced to vote for the candidate which will screw you most gently? i dont remember ever once in my life voting FOR someone... only AGAINST someone else. __________________

01-09-11, 12:36 PM	#159
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	My point exactly. Government has always been corrupt to a degree. They even have detailed plans to protect who in case of total economic collapse...themselves. Since about the 60's politics changed, sure always heated, but politicians fought each other over the will of the people, today they serve special interest. What happened to Gabby and those others shot is a crime of the worse kind. She actually seems to be someone half way decent trying to make change,. I honestly don't think this nation could in fact have a revolution, even armed that could change things because we're such a melting pot of different idea's and people, but could we fall into a nation of chaos...we'd be fools to think it wouldn't happen. If that happens people will rightfully blame the government. We do have many groups that would love to invade and toss out congress by force. These groups are growing by leaps. Heck, thousands of Americans die every year basically serving the greed of government. Heck, I would say our government is more crooked than the King we fought against to become a nation. Our only future hope is elected officials change...but each cycle they become more partisan, more divided and use stronger language and wonder why these things happen. Maybe not so much this nut case, but death threats have increased 300% to government officials. They create such a climate of hate and partisanship to serve greed, well, you'd better expect these results. They can't act the way they do and serve special interest and then tell everyone else to love one another, pray and get along. I pray I never see the day it all comes down to people shooting each other why government officials hide behind steel walls eating ribeyes and drinking fine wine. Most fail to see just one major event could place us there. It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. Thomas Jefferson A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. Thomas Jefferson All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson Last edited by Armistead; 01-09-11 at 12:50 PM.

01-09-11, 01:21 PM	#160
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Considering the destructive and militant vitriol being spread in American politics between Dems and Reps, the martial rethoric and the symbolism of firearms and high level of hate and aggression being displayed, I think it is a miracle that things like this do not happen much more often. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-09-11, 03:26 AM	#151
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Yea oddly enough photo's of him seem to show what what most would assume was a nice young man. Musical, Smart and polite. But the warning signs were there that his sanity was slipping. Myspace and youtube accounts point to a very troubled person spilling into the realm of nonsensical! It is sad that he lost grip of reality and people had to die for it.

01-09-11, 04:15 AM	#152
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Okay, I just read most of this thread and feel compelled to insert my two cents due to absolute outrage. Quite frankly, it'll only be a function of typing over speech that expletives don't make an appearance: People, a CONGRESSWOMAN is most likely near death, and a FEDERAL JUDGE is dead - that is a NATIONAL TRAGEDY, not political talking point. In case you Americans trying to assign blame to any certain ideology, perhaps it escapes you that we have an electoral process designed to PEACEFULLY settle disputes on leadership according to Constitutional guidelines. The idea that ANY American would, rather than mourn the loss, prefer to draw parallels with ANY American, PEACEFUL movement is DISGUSTING, and those people should be ashamed of themselves. The fact that there are those of you who can't pause even a day in consideration of such tragedy is precisely the problem in a peaceful political process which causes DIVISIVENESS and ultimately, extremism. Ask any extremist - they have plenty of facts to back up their views. The problem is that they twist the facts in order to justify foregone conclusions rather than examining said facts as a method of drawing such conclusions. And that is EXACTLY what I see happening by certain people in this thread. Despite what you think about this Congresswoman's views, she's a duly elected representative of the people, and her opinions are permitted by the same Constitution which allows you to openly share yours. The same thing goes for those who are opposed to her views. The idea that either means a damn when one or two lunatics decide to engage in such atrocities is absurd and petty, and speaks volumes about the character of those who'd engage in such speculation, especially with no information or evidence supporting such claims. Un-freakin'-believable.

01-09-11, 02:23 PM	#161
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	it is a scary thought skybird. guns are even being incorporated into political events. That scares me a little bit. __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

01-09-11, 03:09 PM	#163
breadcatcher101 Captain Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 546 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	No surprise there, Skybird. Almost all of us, although many are armed, have no intent to inflict such carnage. I for one am armed for defensive purposes only, not against the goverment but against the criminal elements we have here. My wife and family all know how to handle firearms myself ever since I was age 10. We all target shoot for enjoyment, some of us hunt, and all are armed just in case you have a home invasion. Being from the South, this act we speak of, trying to kill an unarmed woman who meant you no harm is unspeakable to us. In the old days in these parts he would have been hanged and remembered as a coward for his deeds. Today he will probably never be executed but kept locked up why others ponder his actions and wonder why.