U-BOOT_HAHD Official Thread

[Bakkels]

Great work once again Makman and Reaper!
Seems we're making quite some progress!

[MCHALO12]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

Since the HAHD team is a stickler for realism I think you guys would like my tweaks I have made for the TypeIIA.I have been tweaking for weeks with each small change changing something elsewhere.That is fanatical tweaking but I find that if the game looks off I feel off in the SH3 world.Most games I mod its only with the feel as that is what gets me in most games.But its a subtle feel thing where some people will not even notice a difference.

It all started for me with my dislike of the excessive sway left to right of the Uboats.If you know boats you know that a keel is elongated to keep the ship stable on surface with sailboats having very large keels to combat the wind force.So a Uboat with its huge draft and the mass of the boat below water surface is a very stable ship left to right sway wise.Whats weird is the bigger they get the more they sway.So I started tweaking Thompsen's ship mod idea of upping the drag a large amount to stabilize the ship.But every little tweak requires another tweak in a different area.All along I have been sad though that I can't turn the scope stabilization off as I get tickled with delight seeing the scopes behave realistically.So just now I have cracked the code so to speakAny modder that cracks something they tipped up on knows how I feel.

Now you can have scopes pitching around on surface(but the left and right sway is almost nil) and get super smooth when under water.All this time I was putting drag underwater to .75 but that was causing a weird ship behavior on high seas where the ship would not go under when dropping from high heights into a swell.So I put the up/down drag for underwater to 0.0 and voila it rides the high waves as best as possible and more importantly underwater is perfectly stable as it has no effect anyway.

Hi Wolfstriked,

I do not think you are right regarding ship physics in your post. In fact, the German submarines in WWII and especially the type II DID have excessive left to right sway in rough seas. There are reportet cases where the heeling of a typ VII boat was about 70 to 90 degrees in atlantic storms!
Physical background: the type VII oder type II submarines had a very small reserve buoyancy of about 10 to 15%. As a result, the balance point and the center of the buoyant force were quite close, which results in small stability of the boat. As the buoyancy is around zero when submerged, the stability of the boat is even worse when submerged. As a result, the submarine does move from left to right and drag up and down in shallow depths in stormy seas ("shallow" can be up to 50 m in atlantic storms).

Best regards, MCHALO12.

[urfisch]

when is this great tdc planned to be released?

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by MCHALO12

Hi Wolfstriked,

I do not think you are right regarding ship physics in your post. In fact, the German submarines in WWII and especially the type II DID have excessive left to right sway in rough seas. There are reportet cases where the heeling of a typ VII boat was about 70 to 90 degrees in atlantic storms!
Physical background: the type VII oder type II submarines had a very small reserve buoyancy of about 10 to 15%. As a result, the balance point and the center of the buoyant force were quite close, which results in small stability of the boat. As the buoyancy is around zero when submerged, the stability of the boat is even worse when submerged. As a result, the submarine does move from left to right and drag up and down in shallow depths in stormy seas ("shallow" can be up to 50 m in atlantic storms).

Best regards, MCHALO12.

Hi,MCHALO12....90deg is a sub laying on its side.That can happen if the captain decides to drive parrallel to a large wave but most captains know to drive into incoming waves to stabilize the ship. I grew up on boats and can say that if they do lean they stay that way for awhile.Its not like they lean one way and then snap back the other instead they lean and stay leaned for a bit.here are some videos to show what a WW2 sub looks like in varying seas.

Now I agree that a boat moves left and right and up/down in heavy seas BUT it happens different the SH3 simulates it.If your at the top of a crest at 10meters depth and all of a sudden the ocean drops from under the boat the sub drops with it and stays close to its submerged depth.But it drops with the water and stays level.....it might move up and down and left and right but the interior stays level in vertical and horizontal plane.





S-boats in action...notice the stability and they have almost no keel.They also have small rudders that flare out at high speed and cause the boat to stay at a nearly horizontal attitude.


No disrespect intended but here is the S-boat mod with no dampening of the left right SH3 adds.

[reaper7]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

Hi,MCHALO12....90deg is a sub laying on its side.That can happen if the captain decides to drive parrallel to a large wave but most captains know to drive into incoming waves to stabilize the ship. I grew up on boats and can say that if they do lean they stay that way for awhile.Its not like they lean one way and then snap back the other instead they lean and stay leaned for a bit.here are some videos to show what a WW2 sub looks like in varying seas.

Now I agree that a boat moves left and right and up/down in heavy seas BUT it happens different the SH3 simulates it.If your at the top of a crest at 10meters depth and all of a sudden the ocean drops from under the boat the sub drops with it and stays close to its submerged depth.But it drops with the water and stays level.....it might move up and down and left and right but the interior stays level in vertical and horizontal plane.

I would agree with Wolfstike on this one - I grew up around boats (Not quite a big as the ones in SH3 though ).
But the principles are the same - I've been out in 20ft swells in a 23Ft trawler.
As Wolf said you go straight into the wave and the only real pitch is forward and back as you ride the wave up and over - heck I've had my feet up on the window going down the other side of a wave to stop from falling through the window , tea duty's the worst though you start of with a full cup and by the time you get it up to the cabin there ain't much tea left (Bit of salt water though ).
But that only hold while driving into the waves, different story if side on - them it gets interesting .

So yes very little sway left/right its all front/back and thats due to being in a boat that doesn't reach between both crests to stay level.
A larger vessel won't have that problem and should stay relatively level as long as its encroaching more than 1 wave

[Wolfstriked]

I lowered the drag for the up and down alot after watching that video.It seems even the very large subs would ride the waves up and down.MCHALO12 would you like to try it?It can be installed right over stock SH3.This way you can see if it feels off or not.

@Reaper...just saw your post and was thinking the same about longer vessels being way more stable over waves due to length.Watch the first video I posted at 07:10.It shows a very large sub that while it drops up and down a good amount it doesnt seem to pitch forward and back as much as say the IIA would....imo....also the keel is very deep on a sub so that causes even more left/right stability.

Reaper try setting surfaced drag U/D=0.2

[Bakkels]

Well I'm certainly no expert, and didn't grow up on a boat or anything, but a u-boat's silhouette is a lot sleeker than your average boat. So it kind of makes sense to me that it would be more prone to sway from left to right.
But like I said, what do I know

[postalbyke]

i'm with mchalo on this one, guys... from an actual submariner, and from an amateur sailor, the combination of low reserve, coupled with the close cg-cb, you're looking at a very unstable boat.
also, anecdotal evidence shows the type II was nicknamed "dugout canoe"... given because of it's "seaworthy" traits.
the videos you've given are of US fleet-type boats with over 30% reserve buoyancy (which adds a significant amount of stability on the surface), and there's almost no footage from the u-boat video of the sea state and surfaced characteristics (a type vii or type ix to be sure).

sea state two at periscope depth is bumpy enough to make a shower "difficult" (trust me) and that's on a 7,000 ton US nuclear submarine. that's 2-ft waves, yo.

the 23-foot trawler mentioned is a dedicated surface boat with balance and buoyancy characteristics designed to keep it afloat and upright in even the roughest weather.

[Wolfstriked]

Uhoh,a submariner speaking up for the sway being realistic.Hard to make an argument against a person who is an actual submariner.But I just can't agree and so I searched and found German vids.Very stable with some showing the lean and staying there.Happens when the sub is on side of a large wave and tries to behave like its on flat level water by leaning with the wave.In SH3 we do not get the riding sides of waves though.



I think there is a typeIIA in next video.

[postalbyke]

word
anyrate, the new tdc screen looks awesome, been waiting for a less-cluttered version for a while lol... i don't even use it anymore, i just try to imagine what the torpedo run should look like :P
checking out those vids now

[Wolfstriked]

A question I wonder is if the TDC page is realistic in the way you see the missiles drawn out with the range,spread at various ranges,where the enemy ship is in relation...etc real?I wonder if the WO actually would draw out all that info or its just a gameplay thing.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Magic1111

Hi makman !

...or another suggestion: Send me via E-Mail in a list all needed german words and I´ll correct the words and send you back. IMO the best solution !

Best regards,
Magic

you know Magic...you really get me puzzled here ! how am i supposed to send you the german words to correct them as i have no idea at all of german language ?
look at the pic of TDC ...you see the plates there ? what are the CORRECT german words that must be written on these plates describing each dial ?
you send the list ...John is making the corrections ....can't be easier than this !

Originally Posted by Hitman

Manos those icons on the tool bar are pure porn

I'm even doubting wether I should censor them as moderator

Oh no Alberto ....you 'got' me !
i thought that i had 'covered' this so well that everyone would believe at the end that are flood tube indicators! i even made them pointing 'down' (and not...'up' ) for more 'cover' from inspections !
now,if this is pure porn wait to see it in 'action' (you know...moving up and down,up and down...) then without doupt...someone can call it ...100% hardcore !

Originally Posted by ***1074;***1086;***1083;***1082;

The gradient on TDC labels is ugly

ok you don't like BUT where is your suggestion ? i mean how is this post supposed to help Reaper7 to create (if he willing so) some better plates or fonts ?

Originally Posted by urfisch

when is this great tdc planned to be released?

as soon as the whole gui is finished. it will be included at the first release of U-Boot-HAHD mod

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

A question I wonder is if the TDC page is realistic in the way you see the missiles drawn out with the range,spread at various ranges,where the enemy ship is in relation...etc real?I wonder if the WO actually would draw out all that info or its just a gameplay thing.

my point is that the officers,back then, should do their drawings as for torpedo's run course .especially for fat-lut torps i believe that their settings where based exactly on officers's drawings .
thats exactly what the attack map is 'trying' to simulate .on the other hand, the 'green' line (torpedo's course run) is the result exactly of your(player) settings(and NOT necesseraly the correct solution) so it is normal to be able (if you want) to draw on map the torpedo's course run .
now, if still believe that this 'green' line is unrealistic it is easy to eliminate it. the ''contact.tga'' image is responsible (and) for this 'green' line.by creating a full transparent ''contact.tga'' image ....you will totally eliminate this green line.

as for the firing panel i see now what you meant and redone it (no...afaik it can't be switchable--sh3 limits):

[MCHALO12]

Hi wolfstriked,

the videos are quite good, but none of them shows the sea state we are talking about (10-12 Beaufort). I doubt that a video of such a sea state exists... I also am a sailor and know how boats behave in waves, but you actually cannot complain submarines and sailing boats or trawlers, the physics (center of buoyant, balance point, reserve buoyancy) are completely different. A citation from the Typenkompass: German warships: submarines 1935-1945: Type IIa: "Despite their small size and insignificant armament, these boats were able to really scare even experienced sailors for they were very movable in many ways: roll an pitch was so heavy, that even experienced sailors got seriously seasick."

In my opinion, the left/richt sway has to be enlarged to ge a realistic behaviour (which I did with all subs).

Best regards, MCHALO12.

[Schwieger]

Does SH3 even model seas that high? Only goes to 15 m/s and that is only 7 on Beaufort scale..

Which means the storm system in SH3 in in serious need of overhaul.

[urfisch]

Originally Posted by Schwieger

Does SH3 even model seas that high? Only goes to 15 m/s and that is only 7 on Beaufort scale..

Which means the storm system in SH3 in in serious need of overhaul.

whole sh3 game needs some serious overhaul!!! interesting thing was mentioned by tdw, the sh3.exe might be able to be changed. so it calls different shaders for the water...

- weather and water effects from sh5
- crew models and interior graphics from sh5
- crew management from sh4
- full functional wolfpacks and interaction with them

this would be the greatest sim ever.