Women in combat policy to change - Page 10

Stealhead · 02-14-12, 08:17 PM

"i also am not trying to tell you specifically what its like all that much, more trying to prove a point, as im not presuming to lecture people on exactly what goes on or exactly what it feels like, because i dont know.
people have told me their firsthand stories however. My Uncle served in vietnam, my other uncle joined the air force in 1977, still flies drones out in arizona, and my grandfather was a flight engineer aboard a C-47, who was about 1 form away from getting transferred to the 8th airforce, which couldve been horrific."

Well it did seem as though you where some degree or at least your understanding of what it is like most any person in the military when deployed away from the US to a war zone is going have some stress even if they are not in combat no one enjoys not seeing their family and friends for extended lengths of time that alone can be somewhat stressful more so to some than others of course.

Warfare and military service are such complex things you can easily have two different people that had the same job but in different locations you will get two different experiences even on something as small as a submarine the story that the XO could tell you and story that the torpedo man can tell you would be different because of their role.A Corpman and a Marine involved in the same unit during Vietnam would also give you different views it may vary even between two infantrymen what happened what stood out to them and from a physiological stand point they all might deal with their experiences very differently. From this standpoint I'd say that the same would true for women some will deal with the stresses better than others.

August · 02-14-12, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Now, you can do better than that, sport. Maybe some more logical fallacy? C'mon, I need a laugh today. You're like arguing with a child.

Arguing, with you? Hardly. I neither value your opinions or your arguments on a subject you know nothing about, and don't call me "sport".

Takeda Shingen · 02-14-12, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Warfare and military service are such complex things you can easily have two different people that had the same job but in different locations you will get two different experiences even on something as small as a submarine the story that the XO could tell you and story that the torpedo man can tell you would be different because of their role.A Corpman and a Marine involved in the same unit during Vietnam would also give you different views it may vary even between two infantrymen what happened what stood out to them and from a physiological stand point they all might deal with their experiences very differently. From this standpoint I'd say that the same would true for women.

Which really brings us back the the whole point of the thread. Outside of some clearly established physical differences are there jobs, even involving closed quarters like on submarines, where women would not be able to do an adequate job? If not, why are physical differences and the notion that they will not be able to sexually control themselves and issue? If our fighting men and women are mature and controlled enough to make decisions pertaining to life and death situations and placing oneself in harms way, surely they can have the self control to not act like guppies when grouped together.

Takeda Shingen · 02-14-12, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Arguing, with you? Hardly. I neither value your opinions or your arguments on a subject you know nothing about, and don't call me "sport".

If I replied with 'right back at ya, pal' would that be cliche (or tu quoque)? Probably, sport. Probably.

Morts · 02-14-12, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

and don't call me "sport".

and what was your reply when someone was offended by something you said?

oh yeah

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Too bad.

August · 02-14-12, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morts

and what was your reply when someone was offended by something you said?

Moderators that get into name calling don't deserve the privilege of being moderators.

Takeda Shingen · 02-14-12, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Moderators that get into name calling don't deserve the privilege of being moderators.

You throw the first punch and then complain when hit back. Honestly, August, you never miss an opportunity to be the smaller man. Sad for one of your age and supposed life experience.

02-14-12, 08:59 PM

Quote:

and what was your reply when someone was offended by something you said?

But you can't say that as you wasn't in the military with him so you don't know nuffing.
Is Sport proving the point about the problems of blindness.

August · 02-14-12, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

You throw the first punch and then complain when hit back. Honestly, August, you never miss an opportunity to be the smaller man. Sad for one of your age and supposed life experience.

Oh there now i've gone and lost your respect. Woe is me. How ever will I be able to voice an opinion on military affairs again knowing that you with your vast experience in this area do not approve?

Takeda Shingen · 02-14-12, 09:07 PM

Hey, I tried to engage him in a civil manner. I attempted to engage him in discourse, even overlooking his personal attacks. However, after several pages of this, I eventually began tire and hit him back. His response becomes 'ow, that hurts.' Yes, yes it does hurt. It hurts when it is done to me, and how it hurts now that I return the favor. I have a right to defense, contrary to August's view. That I am a moderator does not also require me to be a punching bag. In this case, he need look no further than his own behavior for where things have gone south. It's a textbook example of how not to interact on the internet forum, and an example that I hope others will take into consideration before posting. There is always something to take away from even unpleasant situations.

Enough of this; he will get no more response from me here. Let's either talk shop or let it sink.

nikimcbee · 02-15-12, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Oh there now i've gone and lost your respect. Woe is me. How ever will I be able to voice an opinion on military affairs again knowing that you with your vast experience in this area do not approve?

Fluffy is pretty fragile. So tread softly August.

When I first saw this topic, the first thing I thought of was the Jessica Lynch story. I say the next war we get into, lets let the guys sit that one out. Go chicks! They can't do any worse than the WNBA.

Stealhead · 02-15-12, 12:41 AM

Actually the whole Jessica Lynch myth is to blame on the media she had the integrity to tell the truth about what actually happened which was that she was seriously injured in the initial attack and was helpless and that two other soldiers actually saved the entire unit by managing to kill an Iraqi mortar crew before it could be set up they still all got captured of course but sometimes being captured is unavoidable.It was the media that was talking Medal of Honor not the military not the Army.

nikimcbee · 02-15-12, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Actually the whole Jessica Lynch myth is to blame on the media she had the integrity to tell the truth about what actually happened which was that she was seriously injured in the initial attack and was helpless and that two other soldiers actually saved the entire unit by managing to kill an Iraqi mortar crew before it could be set up they still all got captured of course but sometimes being captured is unavoidable.It was the media that was talking Medal of Honor not the military not the Army.

See, I think, that is where the whole problem lies, with the media pushing their agenda. Nothing against Lynch, but the media is trying to create a hero, so they can say "see, we're right."

I say, let them enter SEAL training, if they can pass that, then you're in.

Stealhead · 02-15-12, 01:30 AM

"See, I think, that is where the whole problem lies, with the media pushing their agenda. Nothing against Lynch, but the media is trying to create a hero, so they can say "see, we're right."

It still would not have worked even assuming that Lynch chose to be a complete liar the other members of her unit male and female would not have backed any of her false claims the awarding of the medal is a very long process it usually takes around two years after the action occurred in many cases they want to be very sure about what happened.
It just goes to show you that Lynch is an honest person she could easily have chosen to bask in the media glory wrongly applied her but she did not.

Now could the military put this idea out there to stir up things knowing in reality the truth? Possible why do you think they publicize so much about JADMs and Drones? Because it makes war sound very sanitized even though there is still alot of kinetic energy non guided weapons also being used you will never here them mention depleted uranium or thermobaric bombs alot of people think all you need nowadays are drones what they do not know is that out there in the field very often there is an american or NATO trooper under that drone somewhere listening to the hum of the engine.I think the pentagon liked that the media went hero crazy over Lynch and let the talking heads talk.In the modern military we get briefed all the time by public affairs officers they give little cards that tell us what not to say.

nikimcbee · 02-15-12, 01:57 AM

Since we're Talking about Lynch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch

02-15-12, 12:41 AM	#147
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Actually the whole Jessica Lynch myth is to blame on the media she had the integrity to tell the truth about what actually happened which was that she was seriously injured in the initial attack and was helpless and that two other soldiers actually saved the entire unit by managing to kill an Iraqi mortar crew before it could be set up they still all got captured of course but sometimes being captured is unavoidable.It was the media that was talking Medal of Honor not the military not the Army. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-15-12 at 12:54 AM.

02-15-12, 01:30 AM	#149
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	"See, I think, that is where the whole problem lies, with the media pushing their agenda. Nothing against Lynch, but the media is trying to create a hero, so they can say "see, we're right." It still would not have worked even assuming that Lynch chose to be a complete liar the other members of her unit male and female would not have backed any of her false claims the awarding of the medal is a very long process it usually takes around two years after the action occurred in many cases they want to be very sure about what happened. It just goes to show you that Lynch is an honest person she could easily have chosen to bask in the media glory wrongly applied her but she did not. Now could the military put this idea out there to stir up things knowing in reality the truth? Possible why do you think they publicize so much about JADMs and Drones? Because it makes war sound very sanitized even though there is still alot of kinetic energy non guided weapons also being used you will never here them mention depleted uranium or thermobaric bombs alot of people think all you need nowadays are drones what they do not know is that out there in the field very often there is an american or NATO trooper under that drone somewhere listening to the hum of the engine.I think the pentagon liked that the media went hero crazy over Lynch and let the talking heads talk.In the modern military we get briefed all the time by public affairs officers they give little cards that tell us what not to say. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-15-12 at 01:44 AM.

02-15-12, 01:57 AM	#150
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Since we're Talking about Lynch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch __________________

02-14-12, 08:17 PM	#136
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	"i also am not trying to tell you specifically what its like all that much, more trying to prove a point, as im not presuming to lecture people on exactly what goes on or exactly what it feels like, because i dont know. people have told me their firsthand stories however. My Uncle served in vietnam, my other uncle joined the air force in 1977, still flies drones out in arizona, and my grandfather was a flight engineer aboard a C-47, who was about 1 form away from getting transferred to the 8th airforce, which couldve been horrific." Well it did seem as though you where some degree or at least your understanding of what it is like most any person in the military when deployed away from the US to a war zone is going have some stress even if they are not in combat no one enjoys not seeing their family and friends for extended lengths of time that alone can be somewhat stressful more so to some than others of course. Warfare and military service are such complex things you can easily have two different people that had the same job but in different locations you will get two different experiences even on something as small as a submarine the story that the XO could tell you and story that the torpedo man can tell you would be different because of their role.A Corpman and a Marine involved in the same unit during Vietnam would also give you different views it may vary even between two infantrymen what happened what stood out to them and from a physiological stand point they all might deal with their experiences very differently. From this standpoint I'd say that the same would true for women some will deal with the stresses better than others.

02-14-12, 09:07 PM	#145
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Hey, I tried to engage him in a civil manner. I attempted to engage him in discourse, even overlooking his personal attacks. However, after several pages of this, I eventually began tire and hit him back. His response becomes 'ow, that hurts.' Yes, yes it does hurt. It hurts when it is done to me, and how it hurts now that I return the favor. I have a right to defense, contrary to August's view. That I am a moderator does not also require me to be a punching bag. In this case, he need look no further than his own behavior for where things have gone south. It's a textbook example of how not to interact on the internet forum, and an example that I hope others will take into consideration before posting. There is always something to take away from even unpleasant situations. Enough of this; he will get no more response from me here. Let's either talk shop or let it sink.