Top Nazi Rudolf Hess exhumed from 'pilgrimage' grave

[joea]

Originally Posted by OTH

I see Subsim is staying classy.

As far as Hess, I'm glad they cremated and spread his remains in the sea. There are thousands of neo nazis in Germany who rally around his grave and his memory, people outside Europe don't seem to have an idea of the extent of the problem.

Yea.

Right thing to do-look at the mayhem these people can cause.

Zeewolf you need to study a bit more-there is more research coming out just on the Soviet POW issue let alone all the material that refutes the other crap you spout.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Growler

I never understood the way the Western Allies treated Hess.

He lived out his years in jail, while after only a few years, Jochen Peiper was a free man; Peiper, and many others far more deserving of long sentences than Hess.

And after he abandoned his post as Hitler's second in command to fly to Scotland to attempt to negotiate a peace settlement with the Allies no less. Makes about as much sense as General Dostler's execution of unmarked saboteurs case. I've long suspected it was more for long-term propaganda purposes than anything else. The fact that, again, Hitler's second in command would do this seems honestly, though, golden in its own right (as far as propaganda value is concerned, anyway).

[MH]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

And after he abandoned his post as Hitler's second in command to fly to Scotland to attempt to negotiate a peace settlement with the Allies no less. Makes about as much sense as General Dostler's execution of unmarked saboteurs case. I've long suspected it was more for long-term propaganda purposes than anything else. The fact that, again, Hitler's second in command would do this seems honestly, though, golden in its own right (as far as propaganda value is concerned, anyway).

Maybe...or maybe a way to get rid of a man who symbolically was second to Hitler.
Party a symbol of Nazi leadership.
Even while put away in prison he remained ideological leader for Nazis.
Hess wasn't general or soldier he was spiritual leader and Hitler's puppy-sort of.
He supposedly was very fanatical person so just think what celebrity figure he could had been if set free.
You can say that he paid political price ... so what.

[MH]

Originally Posted by the_truth

loool
.

lol

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by the_truth

There is a guy here that like to take quotes from mein kampf and misinterpret them.

I have a name too, oh master of masters, and I ask you again in your infinite wisdom to tell me, what the quotes I just gave you said. I am your humble student.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by the_truth

Bunch of nonesense
Edit, NeonSamurai

Neon, did the best job!

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by joea

Yea.

Right thing to do-look at the mayhem these people can cause.

Zeewolf you need to study a bit more-there is more research coming out just on the Soviet POW issue let alone all the material that refutes the other crap you spout.

Listen joe'sa I do not spout,
If you have info you would like me to consider on any issue you have contention with
and where I specifically made a comment then you can provide a link or reference that
can help me become as enlighten as you or think you are. I promise you I will read it and if I am wrong will
change what I believe. Now, do you understand that?

ZeeWolf

[joegrundman]

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

they don't? oy vey!

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Typhus by the way is why the Germans used Zyclon B and needed the disinfectant gas chambers as well as the crematoriums. That is how they attempted to deal with this horrendous epidemic of typhus that raged through the camps.

ZeeWolf

Yes they did use Zyclon B for fumigation purposes. The chambers they used to do that in still survive in Auschwitz-Birkenau. But they are quite different from the killing chambers used in Krema's II - V. For one thing chambers used to delouse clothing were very small, and the concentration of Zyclon B used was very high, so high that the walls of the delousing chambers are stained blue. The gas chambers in the Krema's however were very large, far too large to effectively fumigate clothing. Also the levels of Zyclon B are much much lower (though still detectable in the walls even today).

Some deniers have proposed that the gas was used to disinfect these rooms as morgues. But that is utterly absurd, as Zyclon B has zero effect on bacteria or viruses. Insects are also highly resistant to it, whereas mammals are very vulnerable to it. This is why you have the concentration differences in the two chambers.

Details about the Krema's of Auschwitz

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/


Also I should point out that Auschwitz was a later camp, and not purpose built entirely for extermination. Even Auschwitz-Birkenau was not a fully dedicated killing center, but part concentration camp (and part extermination camp), along with having a 'medical' center for performing experiments. There were also many other satellite camps (50 something), which were slave labor camps.

The earlier Aktion Reinhard camps however were pure purpose built killing centers consisting primarily of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. Combined they killed more people than Auschwitz (depending on estimates, Treblinka alone comes close to Auschwitz-Birkenau).

http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/reinhard/index.html



As for witnesses, yes witnesses can be unreliable, and yes you have to be careful with what you accept as testimony. But just because witnesses are unreliable, it does not automatically invalidate everything they say (particularly if dealing with large numbers of witnesses saying the same things). It also does not mean that the witnesses are being dishonest if there are holes or errors in their memories. Memory is a rather volatile thing, neither perimant, nor especially accurate. Memory is encoded with emotions, and is frequently incomplete. Also extreme stress can distort memory, or block memory from forming (or also make you never forget no matter how much you want to).


Anyhow, if you are serious about examining the holocaust and your own views on it. the nizkor site has everything you will need. I suggest starting with the 66 questions and answers section first, then moving on to techniques of holocaust denial.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/

At the surface, a lot of holocaust denial material seems valid and logical, but do any digging and you will find their claims fall to pieces very rapidly, and that their science is not science at all.




Ok one last comment in general. One thing that always bugs me about people and the holocaust, is the assumption that 'we' could never do such a thing, and that everyone involved were inhuman monsters. Both are false. Any group of people is capable of genocide (and have done such), and most of the people involved in committing the holocaust were average every day people. The commandant of Auschwitz for example, Hoess, was an animal lover, a family man, and the like. Some later turned into monsters, due to the environment, and of course there were other more corrupt and psychopathic individuals (which these places would attract).

But the simple fact of the matter is, this could happen anywhere, and be perpetrated by anyone, be they African, Asian, European, American, Canadian or what have you. It just takes the right circumstances.

[Hottentot]

Oh noes! The master of masters got brigged! Now I will never get answer to my question! Who is behind this communist jew conspiracy?!

[NeonSamurai]

Oh yes and to the zombie that keeps coming back. Try learning how to read Hebrew before posting blatant nonsense from racist sites. I find it especially funny that you call us sheep, when you can't even post your own material or do your own research, but just copy paste a bunch of easily disprovable garbage. Baaa yourself

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Oh yes and to the zombie that keeps coming back. Try learning how to read Hebrew before posting blatant nonsense from racist sites. I find it especially funny that you call us sheep, when you can't even post your own material or do your own research, but just copy paste a bunch of easily disprovable garbage. Baaa yourself

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

Good measure Neon, to let him "cool" down,

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Yes they did use Zyclon B for fumigation purposes. The chambers they used to do that in still survive in Auschwitz-Birkenau. But they are quite different from the killing chambers used in Krema's II - V. For one thing chambers used to delouse clothing were very small, and the concentration of Zyclon B used was very high, so high that the walls of the delousing chambers are stained blue. The gas chambers in the Krema's however were very large, far too large to effectively fumigate clothing. Also the levels of Zyclon B are much much lower (though still detectable in the walls even today).

Some deniers have proposed that the gas was used to disinfect these rooms as morgues. But that is utterly absurd, as Zyclon B has zero effect on bacteria or viruses. Insects are also highly resistant to it, whereas mammals are very vulnerable to it. This is why you have the concentration differences in the two chambers.

Details about the Krema's of Auschwitz

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/


Also I should point out that Auschwitz was a later camp, and not purpose built entirely for extermination. Even Auschwitz-Birkenau was not a fully dedicated killing center, but part concentration camp (and part extermination camp), along with having a 'medical' center for performing experiments. There were also many other satellite camps (50 something), which were slave labor camps.

The earlier Aktion Reinhard camps however were pure purpose built killing centers consisting primarily of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. Combined they killed more people than Auschwitz (depending on estimates, Treblinka alone comes close to Auschwitz-Birkenau).

http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/reinhard/index.html



As for witnesses, yes witnesses can be unreliable, and yes you have to be careful with what you accept as testimony. But just because witnesses are unreliable, it does not automatically invalidate everything they say (particularly if dealing with large numbers of witnesses saying the same things). It also does not mean that the witnesses are being dishonest if there are holes or errors in their memories. Memory is a rather volatile thing, neither perimant, nor especially accurate. Memory is encoded with emotions, and is frequently incomplete. Also extreme stress can distort memory, or block memory from forming (or also make you never forget no matter how much you want to).


Anyhow, if you are serious about examining the holocaust and your own views on it. the nizkor site has everything you will need. I suggest starting with the 66 questions and answers section first, then moving on to techniques of holocaust denial.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/

At the surface, a lot of holocaust denial material seems valid and logical, but do any digging and you will find their claims fall to pieces very rapidly, and that their science is not science at all.




Ok one last comment in general. One thing that always bugs me about people and the holocaust, is the assumption that 'we' could never do such a thing, and that everyone involved were inhuman monsters. Both are false. Any group of people is capable of genocide (and have done such), and most of the people involved in committing the holocaust were average every day people. The commandant of Auschwitz for example, Hoess, was an animal lover, a family man, and the like. Some later turned into monsters, due to the environment, and of course there were other more corrupt and psychopathic individuals (which these places would attract).

But the simple fact of the matter is, this could happen anywhere, and be perpetrated by anyone, be they African, Asian, European, American, Canadian or what have you. It just takes the right circumstances.

Hi NeonSamurai,
Is there punishment if I do not choose to believe the nizkor organization?
Will I suffer retaliation (whether overt or covert)? Will I be put on a list (secret or public) that will make me fair game for total financial or professional destruction? Will I be bard, hounded, persecuted or harmed in any way shape or form for rejecting to toe the line that this nizkor organization presents? Will I be disrespected, open to ridicule, derision or any kind of unkind or hateful remarks or treatment from any quarter?
By you or anyone you know who maybe waiting to ponce on me.

Sincerely
ZeeWolf

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Is there punishment if I do not choose to believe the nizkor organization?
Will I suffer retaliation (whether overt or covert)? Will I be put on a list (secret or public) that will make me fair game for total financial or professional destruction? Will I be bard, hounded, persecuted or harmed in any way shape or form for rejecting to toe the line that this nizkor organization presents? Will I be disrespected, open to ridicule, derision or any kind of unkind or hateful remarks or treatment from any quarter?
By you or anyone you know who maybe waiting to ponce on me.

Most likely not. It shows poor academic behavior to laugh at the beliefs of people and I'm sure Neon is academic enough to know that. Instead, at least where I'm from, it's the lines like those you just wrote, that tend to make people public laughing stocks.

[August]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Hi NeonSamurai,
Is there punishment if I do not choose to believe the nizkor organization?
Will I suffer retaliation (whether overt or covert)? Will I be put on a list (secret or public) that will make me fair game for total financial or professional destruction? Will I be bard, hounded, persecuted or harmed in any way shape or form for rejecting to toe the line that this nizkor organization presents? Will I be disrespected, open to ridicule, derision or any kind of unkind or hateful remarks or treatment from any quarter?
By you or anyone you know who maybe waiting to ponce on me.

Sincerely
ZeeWolf

Would you be ridiculed if you tried to claim that the moon is made of green cheese? Of course you would. This is what happens when people stubbornly retain beliefs in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

You are trying to excuse, if not the most, then certainly one of most evil ideologies ever created by man. The nazis are hated with good reason. If you want to defend them then expect to be hated as well.