Senator Ted Kennedy Dead at 77

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Be interested if this was confirmed with other sources.

A most interesting piece of information.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted...-robinson.html

ttp://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWExYmM0Njk2YjNjMWJmNzJlNzliZmQ1ZjhkNGJhNzE=

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14176

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/3...dropov-gambit/

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...howing_te.html

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

A war most Democrats voted for,

But not Ted.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

intelligence at the time from many sources said WMD were being made by Saddam Hussein,

But later turned out to be wrong when none were found.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Many prominent Democrats are on record calling Saddam Hussein a "threat", and are in favor of military action (before voting for war),

But not Ted.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

A coalition of countries decided themselves to send their armed forces into action there, and Saddam was in complete violation of the cease fire agreements from Gulf War 1.

Uh no. The peace agreement specifically stated that:

-Iraq was to dismantle all WMDs and long-range missiles (ones with a range of 150km or less were fine)
-Iraq was to abandon all future WMD programs
-Was required to comply with UN restrictions on the importing of "conventional weapons"
-Had to forever abandon support for terrorist groups

He dismantled all his WMDs and long-range missiles (you know- SCUDs and the like) under the supervision of UN weapons inspectors (as per Article C), he shut down all his WMD programs (as per Article C), and he did not support terrorist groups (as per Article H). It was an extreme crime in Iraq for anyone to collaborate with terrorists actually; punishable by death.

There was an incident in 1995 in which the Jordanians intercepted two shipments of gyroscopes bound for Iraq, which supposedly violated the "conventional weapons" point in the agreement (under Article F). However, they were purchased by a private businessman, not the government, so nothing was actually broken.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

I guess these things and many more things are easily forgotten by liberals.

If it's bull, there's nothing to "forget".

Originally Posted by August

If he wasn't drinking then he was cold sober when he left that woman to die. That's somehow better?

Personally, I feel it neither better nor worse. The end result was the same, and that's what matters to me: his accomplice died. Although it is quite bold to claim that he "left that woman to die" there. Did it ever occur to you that maybe he thought she got out? Maybe he thought she was already dead? I don't claim to know what was specifically running through his mind; I'm just throwing food out there for thought. But to say that he left her there to die... that's claiming to know exactly what was going through his mind in the event that he was sober.

With that said, as far as the law is concerned, it's much more severe to have something like this happen whilst you're under the influence of alcohol.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

What law and evidence means at this point is moot. He was at a party. He was a known drinker (alcoholic).

And that proves... what exactly about this night? It gives you plenty of reason to be suspicious, but it does not give anything to confirm your suspicions.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

After 10 hours and what was available at the time to detect alcohol in the human body made what determination? There was nothing.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

He got shaken and was in shock thus running off? Personally, I think he was blind drunk. Here is a guy who leaves a party, dumps his car in lake with a women inside and does not tell anyone for 10 hours.

Couple of things:

A) If he was "blind drunk", how did he manage to escape his car as it sank into the lake? Let me link you to a test Mythbusters did on this topic, to give you an idea how difficult it is to escape a sinking vehicle when you're sober:



Imagine how hard it would be if you were drunk.

B) He did not "dump" his car.

With that said, where are you getting the you-had-10-hours-to-test-for-alcohol-being-present-in-a-human's-bloodstream figure? Just curious.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Getting rich by bootlegging in the era of prohibition.

I'm surprised you don't like this. You make a big deal about the government wanting to make/collect reports on guns mandatory, yet you don't support their bootlegging of liquor after the government banned it.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Supporting Hitler during the rise of the Nazis.

Wrong. That would be Fritz Thyssen, who Prescott BUSH (father of presidents G.H.W. and grandfather of G.W.) traded it. Thyssen supported Hitler and the Nazi Party during the 1920s and 1930s. He was one of Germany's wealthiest industrial barons, and owned quite a few factory complexes there. Prescott forged three business deals with him in the '20s, calling for the trading of resources.

When World War II began, Thyssen told Hermann Goering of his disapproval of the war. For this, his company was taken from him and nationalized. However, Prescott Bush continued trading with the company for several more years after the Nazi Party took control of it, up to a year and a half after the United States declared war on Germany.

With that said, Joseph Kennedy did not support the Nazis in any way, shape, or form. He DID support, however, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's attempts to compromise with the Nazis.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Losing “the chosen son” during WWII.

He did his part just like many others; and like many others, he gave his life. The same nearly happened to John when PT-109 was sunk; even George H. W. Bush nearly died during the Battle of the Phillipine Sea. The ones who served in combat I've got respect for, no matter what their political affiliation.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Ghostwriting Profiles In Courage.

Actually, historians are pretty sure today that Ted Sorensen wrote it, not John. Not that it really matters. It's a good book honoring such American politicians as Daniel Webster, John Adams, Robert Taft, and Sam Houston.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Winning the first televised debate (gloss takes the lead over message as those who listened on radio gave the win to Nixon).

As if Nixon had a "message". Well- scratch that. Watergate certainly gave us a message about him... he was a two-faced bastard. I have no respect for Nixon simply because of what he did there and because he supported Joseph McCarthy's trials, which were a mockery to the American justice system to say the least (comparable to the Salem Witch Trials, I would argue).

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

1960 election is “close”. Father jokes about not buying anymore votes than necessary.

It was a joke, not a political statement...

Dear Jack. Don't buy a single vote more than necessary. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for a landslide.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Having numerous affairs with secretaries and maybe an actress or two.

Something which all of them publicly joked about. With that said, how is their sexual life any of our business? It isn't. What they do in the bedroom is none of my concern, or your concern for that matter.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Doing drugs in the White House.

None of them did drugs in the White House. Not one. Robert Jr. was caught with heroin in 1983 in some airport, but not in the White House. Furthermore, need I remind you of the cocaine and pot binges of Bush? How about Nixon's abuse of dilantin?

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Sharing a sexual plaything with a mobster.

Giacana's girl Judith? They never confirmed their relationship was sexual. The FBI (or CIA... it was one of the two) tapped their phones and knew they talked to each other a lot, but they never did prove that anything they did was sexual. And once again, I would cite the matter that it's not any of our business what his sex life consisted of.

Finally, she made a lot of wild claims in her BOOK about her and Kennedy. Didn't back any of it with proof, like photographs or written documents, but she certainly had no problem telling the stories that made up her book.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Bailing support for the invasion of Cuba.

Because they knew it would fail. And guess what? The Bay of Pigs Invasion DID fail. Epically.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

The Cuban missile crisis.

Which came to an end on John's watch.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Wiretapping MLK Jr.’s phones.

After the FBI blackmailed Robert into giving them permission to do so, on suspicions that he was a Communist. That was J. Edgar Hoover for you: nationalist, racist, expert negotiator, and hypocrite.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Marilyn Monroe is driven to suicide or murdered,

The woman was a well-known pill-popper for years. There's no evidence that it was suicide or murder. Lots of conspiracies, but no actual evidence to back these up.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

JFK gets assassinated.

Last president to be killed. May he rest in peace.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Ted opens the immigration floodgates.

Thank you, Ted.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

RFK is talked as the “heir”.

And he could have made it to president...

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

RFK is assassinated.

If it wasn't for this.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Teddy is talked as the “heir”.

Only makes sense. He was the only surviving Congressional Kennedy.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Teddy takes a trip with the Lady of the Lake.

That's not funny. Not at all.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Ted forgoes the White House to hold power in the Senate for 40+ years.

In your point of view, but this amounts to little more than opinion... contradictory at times even. When Democrat Clinton was in the White House, Congress had a Republican majority at one point.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Ted invents Borking.

Ernest Goes to the Beach.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Ted sends a memo to the Soviets pledging support against the Reagan Administration

That reminds me, where are the photoscans of this memo? I read your other post, but I didn't see any actual pictures of them.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

(this should bar him from burial in Arlington; it was treason).

According to United States law, treason is:

...consisting only in levying war against the state, or in adhering to our enemies by giving them aid and comfort.

From what I read of your copy, he was not supporting them against Reagan as you claim. Rather, he was stating that he too disliked the man, especially over his lack of trying to improve relations between the US and USSR. Where does it say that he would take up arms against Reagan in the event the Soviets were to help him?

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Ted blocks Bush’s judicial nominees to affect the outcome of a pending court case and blocks other nominees specifically because they are Hispanic.

A) Citation please?

B) Hispanic? Not because of a disagreement in opinions?

Originally Posted by August

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted...-robinson.html

ttp://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWExYmM0Njk2YjNjMWJmNzJlNzliZmQ1ZjhkNGJhNzE=

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14176

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/3...dropov-gambit/

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...howing_te.html

What about CNN or the BBC? Like... someone with a respectable history or minimal amount of bias? I'm seeing an opinion article from Forbes that doesn't cite any sources or show any pictures of the document, "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion" (National Review), "A Conservative Free Press" (Canada Free Press), Hot Air (which gets its info from Forbes), and a blog that has a main article stating "Here's a great idea: Let's give Obama control of the internet" that reads inside "But don't worry. Obama would only take over the internet in an 'emergency.' Then why does it make me uneasy that this Chicago Way pol gets to define what an 'emergency' might be?"

It certainly gives us reason to question their reliability and accuracy.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Personally, I feel it neither better nor worse. The end result was the same, and that's what matters to me: his accomplice died. Although it is quite bold to claim that he "left that woman to die" there. Did it ever occur to you that maybe he thought she got out? Maybe he thought she was already dead? I don't claim to know what was specifically running through his mind; I'm just throwing food out there for thought. But to say that he left her there to die... that's claiming to know exactly what was going through his mind in the event that he was sober.

With that said, as far as the law is concerned, it's much more severe to have something like this happen whilst you're under the influence of alcohol

Kennedy lied, Mary Jo Kopechne died. That's all that's important here. You're just attempting to whitewash the incident because he's a fellow Democrat.

[FIREWALL]

A UFO did everything useing that line of thinking SH.

Originally Posted by August

Kennedy lied, Mary Jo Kopechne died. That's all that's important here. You're just attempting to whitewash the incident because he's a fellow Democrat.

Nevermind he'd been in the accident himself, tried to save her and was in a state of shock and had concussion etc. according to the doctors.

Like I said I'm no friend of the Kennedys but try not to distort the truth too much. Btw, Bush DUI'd as well or possibly drove in coke, and Cheney DUI'd too. All proven not just 'hearsay'. Not to mention Laura Bush who murdered a dude who wouldn't poke her lovenest. Yes, it's true. How about that for an 'incident'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas

Can you Americans imagine that we have a president who hasn't killed anyone, personally or otherwise?

[Aramike]

@Stealth Hunter: Holy crap, that might be the longest quote-post consisting of mostly one-liners of the year.

From what I read of your copy, he was not supporting them against Reagan as you claim. Rather, he was stating that he too disliked the man, especially over his lack of trying to improve relations between the US and USSR. Where does it say that he would take up arms against Reagan in the event the Soviets were to help him?

Dude, that's totally "aid and comfort to the enemy". If treason was defined soley as taking up arms, that'd be what it says.

OTH:

Nevermind he'd been in the accident himself, tried to save her and was in a state of shock and had concussion etc. according to the doctors.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Nevermind he'd been in the accident himself, tried to save her and was in a state of shock and had concussion etc. according to the doctors.

Like I said I'm no friend of the Kennedys but try not to distort the truth too much. Btw, Bush DUI'd as well or possibly drove in coke, and Cheney DUI'd too. All proven not just 'hearsay'. Not to mention Laura Bush who murdered a dude who wouldn't poke her lovenest. Yes, it's true. How about that for an 'incident'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas

Can you Americans imagine that we have a president who hasn't killed anyone, personally or otherwise?

State of shock...attempted to save? Yeah sure...he was blind drunk and wandered off. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. According to what the doctors opinions were or did they just spill the opinion Ted's good buddies wanted them to have?


How in the heck did you get Laura Bush as a murder from that wiki article:

Not to mention Laura Bush who murdered a dude who wouldn't poke her lovenest. Yes, it's true. How about that for an 'incident'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Nevermind he'd been in the accident himself, tried to save her and was in a state of shock and had concussion etc. according to the doctors.

You believe a physical examination given many hours afterwards, given by Kennedy doctors, is valid? You would never let a Republican get away with that. Why the flip flop oth?

Not to mention Laura Bush who murdered a dude who wouldn't poke her lovenest. Yes, it's true. How about that for an 'incident'.

I see no mention of intent there at all but is that the best you can do to compare a private citizen (and at the time a minor) with the actions of Senator Saint Teddy?

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Nevermind he'd been in the accident himself, tried to save her and was in a state of shock and had concussion etc. according to the doctors.

Like I said I'm no friend of the Kennedys but try not to distort the truth too much. Btw, Bush DUI'd as well or possibly drove in coke, and Cheney DUI'd too. All proven not just 'hearsay'. Not to mention Laura Bush who murdered a dude who wouldn't poke her lovenest. Yes, it's true. How about that for an 'incident'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas

Can you Americans imagine that we have a president who hasn't killed anyone, personally or otherwise?

Your flatout CERTIFIABLE.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

The Kennedy legacy............

Getting rich by bootlegging in the era of prohibition.

Yeah, so? Alcohol should never have been made illegal (like many other things)

Supporting Hitler during the rise of the Nazis.

So did Prescott Bush

Losing “the chosen son” during WWII.

Your point?

Ghostwriting Profiles In Courage.

Perhaps.

Winning the first televised debate (gloss takes the lead over message as those who listened on radio gave the win to Nixon).

Yep, that IS stupid.

1960 election is “close”. Father jokes about not buying anymore votes than necessary.

Yep. Dirty. Though I'd MUCH rather have JFK as President than Nixon.

Having numerous affairs with secretaries and maybe an actress or two. Doing drugs in the White House. Sharing a sexual plaything with a mobster.

Our business...how?

Bailing support for the invasion of Cuba.

Yep. He shouldn't have done that.

The Cuban missile crisis.

Masterfully handled.

Wiretapping MLK Jr.’s phones.

Um, you DO know J. Edgar Hoover did what he wanted? And that he blackmailed every President above him to stay in power?

Marilyn Monroe is driven to suicide or murdered, the death scene is compromised (shades of Vince Foster’s office).

Conjecture.

JFK gets assassinated.

Your point?

Ted opens the immigration floodgates.

I don't care for that.

RFK is talked as the “heir”.

Your point?

RFK is assassinated.

Your point?

Teddy is talked as the “heir”.

Your point?

Teddy takes a trip with the Lady of the Lake.

Classy way to put that. He should have helped her.

Ted forgoes the White House to hold power in the Senate for 40+ years.

Your point?

Ted invents Borking.

Is that like Swiftboating? Or Saxby Chambliss calling Max Cleland unAmerican? Saxby sat out the Vietnam war, citing a "bad knee," while Cleland lost three out of four limbs.

Ted sends a memo to the Soviets pledging support against the Reagan Administration (this should bar him from burial in Arlington; it was treason).

I'd like to see a source on that. If it was something like Fox, or the Washington Times, I'd have to take it w/a truckload of salt.

Ted blocks Bush’s judicial nominees to affect the outcome of a pending court case and blocks other nominees specifically because they are Hispanic.

Good for the former, I don't know about the latter.

[Aramike]

Yeah, so? Alcohol should never have been made illegal (like many other things)

So now we can all decide what laws we abide?

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Aramike

[/b]So now we can all decide what laws we abide?

They did. And in the end, prohibition was repealed.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

They did. And in the end, prohibition was repealed.

So?

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by August

Kennedy lied,

About what lol?

Originally Posted by August

Mary Jo Kopechne died.

Yep.

Originally Posted by August

That's all that's important here.

The facts surrounding the incident are just as important. You alleged that he lied about drinking that night, but that was never proven by officers of the law. So, once more, as far as the facts are concerned, he didn't lie about that.

Originally Posted by August

You're just attempting to whitewash the incident because he's a fellow Democrat.

So because I'm a Social Democrat (/slash Democratic Socialist), and because the term "Democrat" is in the party's name, I must be a member of the United States Congressional Democratic Party...

Brilliant deduction.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Holy crap, that might be the longest quote-post consisting of mostly one-liners of the year.

Naw, Subman's got some longer ones.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Dude, that's totally "aid and comfort to the enemy".

Comfort? No. Aid? How did he give aid? Did he send the Russians weapons? Did he give them a map of the eastern seaboard? Did he give them statistics of American troop displacements throughout the nation? Etc.?

Nope. So he was not aiding them. He was conversing with them but not aiding them.

Originally Posted by Aramike

If treason was defined soley as taking up arms, that'd be what it says.

Which is why we have the Supreme Court there to determine the definitions of hazy legal terms. And according to them after the Haupt case in '47, you're only aiding the enemy if you give them information or direct support which will help them against the nation. Though he was also hiding a spy in his home, so it also ties into the comfort thing.

Furthermore, why is it that none of these people bothered to give sources or photocopy images of these documents that they reported on? I find that a bit odd. Why didn't someone like Fox News cover this? I name them simply because discovering something like this would be like finding oil in a goldmine for them. Very skeptical that this is the entire story, if it even happened.

Originally Posted by Aramike

OTH:

I also lol'd.

Herring, do you by chance have a citation for this?

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Aramike

So?

So all people who had been imprisoned for breaking Prohibition laws/brought up on charges were released after it was repealed. In short, they may as well not have been doing anything wrong.

I find it odd that someone who opposes the government's desire for gun bans would have such a problem with the Kennedy family opposing Prohibition and the government's nation-wide ban on alcohol...