Wolfpack: Project Escorts

[Furia]

FANTASTIC !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been waiting for having a modern sim with human manned Escort vs human manned subs for a very long time

You got a new Paetron.

[tom2020]

cool

[Fidd]

Koji,

Have you come across any film, or manual that suggests a reload time for the hedge-hog, or any indication as to how many rounds were carried for them in the Flower Class magazine? The same information for Squids, and readily available DC's might also be worthwhile sourcing.

At some stage in proceedings you'll need to establish, both from a gameplay and real-life perspectives, what these reload times might need to be. I'd estimate a reload time for the hedgehog of circa 10-20 minutes, to allow for the rounds to be brought up from the magazine and put on their spigots. In a similar way, After a certain number of DC patterns are dropped, the racks on the deck will need replenishing from the magazine, and have their fuses installed - but not set - as they're brought up. This would likely create a hiatus before that ship can continue with dropping patterns. Obviously, the magazine armourers would simply continue preparing and sending up DC's until told to stop, so I'd not expect that initial hiatus to repeat.

Thoughts?

[Furia]

How do you come with this figure of 10 to 20 minutes reload time?
Any source you can share.

For what I have read in several books the reload was far much faster.

Even in Wikipedia they are talking about 3 minutes.

Hedgehog_(weapon)

[Fidd]

Originally Posted by Furia

How do you come with this figure of 10 to 20 minutes reload time?
Any source you can share.

For what I have read in several books the reload was far much faster.

Even in Wikipedia they are talking about 3 minutes.

Hedgehog_(weapon)

it may well be, that's why I used the word "estimate". I was working from the premise that replacement hedge-hog charges would not be laying around the deck before firing, ready to reload, but would need to be brought up from the magazine. I'd have expected this resupply to occur until they were told to stop, so its the first reload that would be most time-consuming. If you had the new rounds ready and by the weapon, then 3 minutes makes sense. But if not, then 10-20 minutes is probably a better estimate, dropping back towards the 3 minute mark as time goes on. On the other hand, DC's were (erroneously) believed at the time to be far more effective than hedge-hog and as the same people who were resupplying HH's were also bringing up the DC's, it's entirely possible the HH was only used once whilst in asdic contact, with the reload occurring once contact was lost.

I'm simply asking of anyone knows, or can provide evidence for, the reload rates, the rest of it is surmise.

[Furia]

I have found this video with a lot of interesting data about Hedgehogs and it also mentions the 3 minutes.



And on this one you can see the loading cadence. Apparently the magazine is just right behind the launcher

[Fidd]

Most interesting, thanks.

[Caseck]

Originally Posted by Furia

I have found this video with a lot of interesting data about Hedgehogs and it also mentions the 3 minutes.



And on this one you can see the loading cadence. Apparently the magazine is just right behind the launcher

All this just brings home how much things like reloading a weapon varies by conditions (imagine doing that in even Sea State 3) and the motivation and fatigue of the crew.

Human factors in warfare always seem to be the biggest factor.


So much good history in exploring all the cool Escorts!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckle...stroyer_escort

[KojiKamori]

Originally Posted by Fidd

it may well be, that's why I used the word "estimate". I was working from the premise that replacement hedge-hog charges would not be laying around the deck before firing, ready to reload, but would need to be brought up from the magazine. I'd have expected this resupply to occur until they were told to stop, so its the first reload that would be most time-consuming. If you had the new rounds ready and by the weapon, then 3 minutes makes sense. But if not, then 10-20 minutes is probably a better estimate, dropping back towards the 3 minute mark as time goes on. On the other hand, DC's were (erroneously) believed at the time to be far more effective than hedge-hog and as the same people who were resupplying HH's were also bringing up the DC's, it's entirely possible the HH was only used once whilst in asdic contact, with the reload occurring once contact was lost.

I'm simply asking of anyone knows, or can provide evidence for, the reload rates, the rest of it is surmise.

There was a magazine for additional shells but most were held in "ready to use" ammunition lockers next to the weapons they were intended for. The deck gun had racks that held shells all around it, each 20mm had their own lockers right next to the spotlights behind them. Hedgehog had a big ole locker right behind the blast shield of the main gun. So each weapon was always in the ready to be used and reloaded because in war, seconds, not minutes, count.

[KojiKamori]

https://imgur.com/xTHevjO

I can bet that my pictures would be over sized. But I been working on the hedgehog quite a bit and have set up where you can see two of them next to another. The one on the left with the rainbow colors is there to indicate the fire groups of each shell, the one on the right represents roll compensation and isn't important to be colorized.

https://imgur.com/g7UXnIy
I am testing out the gyro stabization of the weapon which it was able to compensate for roll and pitch of the ship. I have the numbers to how much forward and back, side to side the thing was able to compensate but the real puzzle is in the how. I have found out that each of the 6 shells sits on one of 4 cradles and like a baby cradle is able to swing to and fro. This to and fro motion of the cradles is how it is able to compensate for roll. However, I still haven't found how it compensated pitch.

[Caseck]

Originally Posted by Furia

FANTASTIC !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been waiting for having a modern sim with human manned Escort vs human manned subs for a very long time

You got a new Paetron.

I'm hoping SEA POWER goes multiplayer, but they're still mulling the idea around. Since DW and before that HARPOON the pickings are slim.

[Fidd]

Originally Posted by Caseck

I'm hoping SEA POWER goes multiplayer, but they're still mulling the idea around. Since DW and before that HARPOON the pickings are slim.

This is my number 1 hope for the game, simply because the behaviour, "intelligence" if you will, of players operating according to orders from a convoy commander, is going to be far far less predictable and dangerous to U-boat players than an AI will ever be. I can forsee some very prolonged DC attacks for a start, where marshalling the u-boat's battery power, dealing with damage (a hopefully more nuanced and detailed damage model) will provide some really memorable games.

[AKD]

There is a bit of technical information on Hedgehog (and ASDIC / SONAR use generally) in this post-war USN sonarman training manual (mind you some aspects only concern tech that was deployed at the very end or after the war):

https://play.google.com/books/reader...en&pg=GBS.PA44

[skipjack578]

Nice find ...i also found this on waky page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog

[Fearless]

Awesome stuff. Looking forward to commanding the escort.