LuftWolf and Amizaur's Realism Mod Poll #11: Adv. Torpedoes

[Molon Labe]

I practically parked the UUV on top of him (688I), range was about a mile but a lot of it might have been cross-layer. Most of the tracking was while he was evading torps close aboard. Initial detection was about 3 miles, probably, when he accelerated to tactical speed. The torpedoes were detected at about 10-13nm out in the duct in a CV SSP.

[LuftWolf]

Sorry Bellman, we are heading in another direction.

Since I blew the initial testing on frequency sensitivity ranges, the new UUV sensor is going to be completely different (narrow high-frequency detection band with a sensitivity significantly less, but comparable to sphere arrays).

Loud contacts should be picked up at some distance and quiet contacts not at all. The only reason it is in the state that it's in in the playtest is because I thought it had to be thoroughly fudged (very very low sensitivity TA-like sonar), but now we can actually do it the way it should be done, which is, a sonar that is significantly less sensitive than the stock game UUV.

Based on what has been discussed here and what is in the mod, there is basically no way that a UUV sonar should pick up a very quiet submarine moving slowly unless it practically runs into the hull.

[Deathblow]

I would just like to say that more people probably don't make their own mods, because LW&A has come so far and any other mod would probably mimick a lot of what was already down in LW&A.

LW&A was pretty much a conglemerate of all the mod ideas of the community... at least at first... IMHO. I've tried to throw in my coding suggestions from time to time.

As far as cheating in the online community... is this your first time playing an online game? Exploiting bugs and unintentional gliches is what dominates MOST online gaming... its the rule, not the exception, such is online and will always happen. No DW players aren't gamers that walk on water and rise above the problem that every other single online game has... it will be subject to it just the same.

Remember LW and A... create the game that YOU want to play... don't create it for the community, create it for YOURSELF because its what you want to play. Inviting the aid of those that want to help and distrubing your ideals to those interested is appreciated, but never forget that its your game that your trying to perfect. That should keep the frustratoin your starting to feel more in perspective... hopefully. You guys obviously have a vision of what is ideal in the game and go with it, that's about it.

EDIT: grammar

[Bellman]

LW: ''In another direction'' - No sir !

UUV: Only in so far as your initial objectives in ASW have been opposed by the so called 'Reality Now'
brigade ! So you have listened and responded by introducing short-sightedness. I predicted this, if you recall,
and said you were heading into a ''cul de sac.''and also that ''you should listen to calls for the sensitivity to
be reduced'' So thats where you are as predicted in a cul de sac with the short-sighted.
Not ''another direction'' No sirree - Bang on target. In todays climate an inevitable outcome.
We shared initialy an unrealistic goal of achieving a new UUV with a greater ASW role. A great pity !

But in UUV controllability and incoming tracking I am completely onboard ! And as for Torps,
excluding minor wire glitches the same applies here !

So from my negotiating perspective 75% at least of requirements met = One happy bunny here !!
Please keep up the good work - it is greatly appreciated. :|\

[LuftWolf]

I just tested my underkeel detonation scheme for the ADCAP... it works.

[LuftWolf]

The final design for the LWAMI Advanced Torpedo Mod is done.

I'm going to start working on the implimentation for a complete torpedo playtest, which I hope to have done for tomorrow night.

Stand-by. Wish me luck.

Cheers,
David

PS This is going to be SO rad once its fully implimented, I can't even contain myself.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

PS This is going to be SO rad once its fully implimented, I can't even contain myself.

Well if you lose containment and breach I’m not going to clean it up! :P

Make sure the other fish get the under the keel detonation too!
*Thinking of the 65-76*

[Bellman]

Good luck David - Cant wait - this is the BIGGEE !! :|\

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Well if you lose containment and breach I’m not going to clean it up! :P

Make sure the other fish get the under the keel detonation too!
*Thinking of the 65-76*

Actually, the 65-76 has always been modelled for underkeel detonation (even in the stock database) because its warhead in the database is about twice its listed value, and since it is a dedicated ASuW wakehomer, this works just fine, since it is always assumed to fuse in underkeel mode, the damage is just factored into the standard damage listed in the database.

Public sources listed the warhead as 450-550kg, and the database has the damage of the 65-76 listed at 900kg.

[LuftWolf]

I need someone out there to check and see if the following happens:

1) Launch a UUV from the startboard side number 3 tube on the 688i

2) Launch a UUV from the port side number 4 tube on the 688i

3) Maneover the UUVs and see if the one fired from the port tube is 10 degress off the indicated course (at the firecontrol panel UUV controls) you are steering it to the left and the one on the right is 10 degrees off the indicated course to the right.

Please do this with the stock game, LWAMI 3.02, or the LWAMI PT 1, just please tell me what version you are doing it.

Thanks.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Ok, I have finished some final changes to the UUV and added the Advanced Torpedo Physics to the ADCAP and UGST doctrines, although the database changes haven't been done yet.

For those of you who are chomping at the bit (or who think we are just messing around here ) I'm going to post a corrected LWAMI Playtest One to the CADC very shortly, although keep in mind this is far from the finished product, but it clearly demonstrates all the concepts we are using.

Cheers,
David

PS Don't expect the AI to be able to use ADCAPs or UGSTs very well right now, I haven't done any work on the AI at all up to this point.

[LuftWolf]

I have posted the LWAMI Playtest One WITH ATP correction to the CADC:

http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=29521

From the playtest readme:

To Install: Unzip the file into your main DW directory allowing the unzip program to overwrite all files and install to the correct directories.

This playtest should be considered a beta. It combines LWAMI 3.02 with the following changes:

ADDED IN THE ATP VERSION

UUV-The UUV sensor sensitivity has been reduced and given a hardcap of about 20nm. Also, the range of the UUV is now greatly reduced by running it at high speed, especially at 20kts. Also, and I just noticed this although it appears on my computer to be in the stock game as well, the course of the UUV is going to be off whatever is indicated in the fire control panel controls by the firing angle of the torpedo tube that fired it... I can't correct this, but I tried, although it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. :-P

UGST and ADCAP- I have tuned the wirewatch sensor and doctrines. The only ownship condition now monitored by the wire is the distance from the launchpoint of the torpedo... this is measured as a radius. I can't have it be the truerun of the submarine because the doctrine isn't getting good info from the Sim. Again, this is fine in my opinion because it allows the submarine some loiter capability. Also, the Enable distance and the wiredistance for the torpedo are now measured as the true distance run rather than the radius distance from launchpoint. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING: the Advanced Torpedo Physics have been implimented for the ADCAP and UGST, so that means they will run farther when slower and running more shallow (although the database still needs to be updated to fully take advantage of this at the extreme long/slow range/speed settings).

END OF THINGS ADDED IN THE ATP VERSION

Advanced Torpedo Control Mod for UGST and ADCAP:

Set the torpedo to fire as normal. If you don't use the wire commands, it will behave as always. The wirecontrol commands are now as follows. Note, you must wait at least a second of game time between clicks, but it is possible to hit the button several times to go through the cycle quickly. A single preenable click will preenable the torpedo if it is enabled or do nothing. A second preenable click will send the torpedo to the preset search depth. A third click will send the torpedo to the ceiling. A fourth click will send the torpedo back to launch depth. The enable button works as follows. A single enable click will set the torpedo speed to 40kts and enable the passive sensor. A second click will enable the active seeker on the torpedo and set the speed to max speed. Further clicks of the enable button have no effect on the torpedo unless it is preenabled again, and then the behavior is reset to the beginning of the enable cycle.

WireBreak Mod:
Wires are now limited in range and ownship maneovering parameters. The ADCAP has a 10nm internal wire and a 5nm wire on the launching platform. If the torpedo or ownship travel farther than those distance FROM THE LAUNCH POINT, or if the range between ownship and the torpedo exceeds that distance, the wire will break. The UGST has a 25km internal wire and a 5km wire on the launching platform. Additionally, if the opening speed between ownship and the torpedo exceeds about 60kts for the ADCAP or 55kts for the UGST, with ownship movement accounting for no more than 20kts of that calculation, the wire will break. These maneovering measurements are unintentionally fuzzy, however, it is something that occurs naturally that I was going to build in anyway, so it works nicely. :-) What this means in practical terms is that a slow running torpedo gives the launching platform much more flexibility in maneovering the ship, whereas a torpedo running at maxspeed is much more prone to a maneovering-related wirebreak. NOTE: When the wire is broken, its broken. However, sometimes the interface will momentarily display the torpedo as preenabled, but it reenables soon enough not to effect the game in any way. The only unfinished part is that you can still shutdown the torpedo even after the wire is broken... we can't take this out. However, it is very minor, in my opinion, seeing as the user would typically reload his tube after the wires are broken anyway. ;-)

Advanced UUV Mod:

The UUV is much more quiet now, and is very hard to detect without cavitation. The passive sensor has been reduced in sensitivity considerably and the active sensor has been disabled completely (mostly because its broken in DW 1.03). The UUV now has a range of 32km and max speed of 20kts, with the sensors effective up to 6-8kts, with washout above 6kts. The operation is as follows. You must be at 4kts as before, and enter the presets in the same way. After firing the weapon it will begin to feed back data immediately and move at 4kts. The speed of the UUV is controlled with the enable button and the depth is controlled with the preenable button. The preenable button has no effect on the passive sensor. One click of the enable button will stop the UUV; it can persist indefinately in this state (although I will most likely have a timer on it in the full version), a second click will speed the UUV up to 6kts. A third click of the enable button will speed the UUV up to 12kts, the max speed the UUV can travel in up to 90ft of water without cavitating. A fourth click of the enable button and the UUV will go to its max speed of 20kts. A fifth click will stop the UUV and reset the counter, although you can click the enable button twice slowly and set it to 6kts. Note the sensors are washout above 8kts and do not feed data. The preenable button depth control works as follows. A single click does nothing. A second preenable click will send the UUV to the preset search depth. A third preenable click will send the UUV to 90ft if it is in over 100ft of water or 45ft if it is in less than 100ft of water. A fourth click will send the UUV back to launch depth, and reset the cycle.

SLAM-ER and Misc. Missiles:

The SLAM-ER now works for ASuW use and will enable a radar seeker at the last waypoint if it is over water. If the last waypoint is over land, the missile will operate in Strike mode, and behave as a light TLAM. The missile has a stealth enable feature that sends it down to just above the ocean before enabling and then after enabling it rising back to its cruising altitude of 30ft. Note, the standard harpoon has also been giving this cruising altitude, and the flight profiles of various missiles have been lowered. Also, the standard SLAM has been fixed and equipped on the AI P-3 as a land attack missile because the AI can't use the SLAM-ER properly. The AI P-3 does carry the Harpoon for ASuW. The Harpoon and the SLAM-ER both have a 40 Radar PSL, which is very low.

Helicopters:

I have attempted to fixed several problems like crashing and reporting contacts at launch, as well as dragging the active dipping sonar. Please use the FFG AI MH60 as well as observe helo behavior in general. :-) Also, the MH60 no longer launches with its radar on. :-)

CIWSAttack Doctrine has been updated to give better intercept performance will allowing for appropriate missile conservation for sustained attacks.

I made a minor change to the TLAM doctrine to make sure it always explode near the target as opposed to disappearing if it overshoots.

The Random Direction Torpedo Mod has been disabled for all torpedoes to allow more predictable subroc and AI MH60 weapon delivery. The torpedoes will always go to the right upon enabling.

The Hull array of the SW has been changed to simulate what we believe to be more close to the actual sonar suite on the SW. The Hull array on the SeaWolf now represents a low frequency receiver with coverage slightly larger than the Sphere array and with the same geometry. The frequency sensitivity and and washout speed remain as before. This sonar suite should be very helpful for tracking evading targets and as well as for all situaions in the littorals where the TA cannot operate.

The Maxspeed of the MPT torpedo payload on the SS-N-27 ASW has been reduced from 55kts to 45kts. This is done partially because the torpedo probably is closer to that speed as well as to reduce the effectiveness of the SS-N-27 relative to the new torpedoes behavior.

That's it!

Please play the heck out of this, specifically looking into these things I have mentioned here and provide as much feedback as you can through the usual channels. :-)

Cheers,
David
LW

Please do not post this file to any other site, as it is NOT an official LWAMI distribution. Thank you.

Cheers,
David

[Bellman]

Great - this is what we've been waiting for

Entering the 'Head-bashing' zone again fearlessly .........
David you asked earlier for UUV testing on the 688i 3 and 4 tubes. Dived in Stock (Stock UUV ): The starboard (3) tube launched UUV exits and maintains + 10 deg.
When resteered its actual heading in WC always remains + 10 deg of the one selected. The port (4) tube launched UUV exits and maintains - 10 deg.
When resteered its actual heading in WC always remains - 10 deg of the one selected.

As you say, when allowed for, its no big deal.

[Bellman]

Weird - cant understand this :-

I have two separate installations of Stock and LwAmi - each on a different partition of my hard drive.(HD A and HD B)
I loaded up a 688i (HD A) with UUVs tubes 3 & 4 for the above test in the Stock game (results above)
I then switched to LwAmi (HD B) and went to Wpns loadout to choose the UUVs and there they were.
So to check this out I swapped the UUVs for TASMs exited that HD and ran Stock again on the other HD where
I select the mission with 688i go to loadout and HECK the TASMs are there.

I cant understand this as I have separate registry settings as recommended in the dual-instal instructions.
Anyone got any ideas ?

[LuftWolf]

Thanks Bellman.

And don't worry, as long as you don't screw up, you don't have to worry about getting your "head bashed." :P

Yeah, that's a bit of problem from the stock game... I can't compensate for it in the doctrines, so we just have to live with it.

I had just never noticed it before... ok, not a big deal.

Cheers,
David