Climate Change

[Betonov]

Well, climate change is real.
And here's a quick review of my opinion:

Is it that destructive Al Gore tried to sell us ?? No.
Is it 100% human influenced ?? No.
Are humans at fault to some degree ?? Yes.
Are corporations bribing scientists to deny climate change so they have an excuse not to upgrade pollution standards ?? Yes
Are hippies overhyping and overpanicking the climate change ?? Yes
Am I experiencing change in weather paterns that even my grandparents notice ?? Sadly yes.

And like Obi said above, do we really need a climate change to change our ways ?? Every time technology moves forward, the pollution standards should rise.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Well, climate change is real.
And here's a quick review of my opinion:

Is it that destructive Al Gore tried to sell us ?? No.
Is it 100% human influenced ?? No.
Are humans at fault to some degree ?? Yes.
Are corporations bribing scientists to deny climate change so they have an excuse not to upgrade pollution standards ?? Yes
Are hippies overhyping and overpanicking the climate change ?? Yes
Am I experiencing change in weather paterns that even my grandparents notice ?? Sadly yes.

And like Obi said above, do we really need a climate change to change our ways ?? Every time technology moves forward, the pollution standards should rise.

Exactly what I'm thinking.

[Rockstar]

I learned in elementary school way back when, that 18,000 or so years ago the earth was round and once covered with ice. Today, I look out the window and I can say thats nolonger the case. I'm no scientist nor do I play one on TV but I would call that a warming trend. A warming trend which has been going on for 18,000 years now. Long before the industrial revolution and the first records of weather and temperatures were kept.

What nobody has yet an answer why. So far all anyone has been able to do today is to break out charts and graphes and dazzle me with high math to tell me something I learned when I was 9 years old. Now it's politicized, which of course simply translates into high emotions, excuses for more taxes and helicopter surveillance of backyard BBQs.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Some scientists will say and do anything to keep the grant money flowing.
It's all about the Benjamins.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Now it's politicized, which of course simply translates into an excuse for more taxes and helicopter surveillance of backyard BBQs.

You two do realize that for that to be true, it would have to be a global conspiracy?
It's not just American scientists saying we might have accelerated the climate change,
but a vast majority of scientists from all over the world agree with that.

[ColdFront]

Originally Posted by Dowly

You two do realize that for that to be true, it would have to be a global conspiracy?
It's not just American scientists saying we might have accelerated the climate change,
but a vast majority of scientists from all over the world agree with that.

Not that hard to believe if the incentive (grant money) remains the same across nations. And that assumption is pretty realistic.

Originally Posted by Betonov

Am I experiencing change in weather paterns that even my grandparents notice ?? Sadly yes.

As for where I live, we still experience the same weather pattern of unseasonable weather in winter that my great-grandpa noticed a century ago.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Dowly

You two do realize that for that to be true, it would have to be a global conspiracy?
It's not just American scientists saying we might have accelerated the climate change,
but a vast majority of scientists from all over the world agree with that.

Whats a global conspiracey?

1. That 18,000 years ago the globe was covered in ice and now it's not?

2. Or is it that the only out come I've seen to arguements on global warming based on 'might haves and maybes' by a 'vast majority', is just government proposing surveilance and taxes to fight global warming. http://sputniknews.com/world/20070403/62999935.html

Reading the definition of conspiracy I'd say #2 is the conspiracy because they're making out like bandits at my expense.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

What nobody has yet an answer why. So far all anyone has been able to do today is to break out charts and graphes and dazzle me with high math to tell me something I learned when I was 9 years old.

Isn't that a contradiction? Just because you didn't understand the explanation that was given doesn't mean that none was given. It might not have been extremely accurate yet as we are just beginning to understand what is going on and still need to do a lot of research but explanations are there and we know that the climate has never changed as quickly as it does now. The problem isn't so much that it does change but how fast it does.
Besides I don't care much whether it's a hoax or not (which would be pretty much impossible on that scale IMHO). We've seen the effects of pollution on the environment (dead rivers, dying forests, species going extinct etc.) so (almost) everything we do to prevent pollution and destruction of the environment in general is a good thing in my book.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Isn't that a contradiction? Just because you didn't understand the explanation that was given doesn't mean that none was given. It might not have been extremely accurate yet as we are just beginning to understand what is going on and still need to do a lot of research but explanations are there and we know that the climate has never changed as quickly as it does now. The problem isn't so much that it does change but how fast it does.
Besides I don't care much whether it's a hoax or not (which would be pretty much impossible on that scale IMHO). We've seen the effects of pollution on the environment (dead rivers, dying forests, species going extinct etc.) so (almost) everything we do to prevent pollution and destruction of the environment in general is a good thing in my book.

No, I don't think its a contradiction. I knew when I was 9 years old a warming trend exsisted. The problem I had then is just as people have now. That is no one person on this planet has the answer why. I think trying to argue that pollution causes something that has been happening for 18,000 years is at best futile.

Global warming AND cooling is as science has shown a very naturally occurring phenomenon, whats to be afraid of? Prepare for it like you would any other weather system or season. Gets cold? then dress warm, floods? move to higher ground. Get too hot? wear sunscreen. Shouldn't be a problem we've done it all our life. I think the causes of global warming is an endless argument and big distraction.

However I believe we have some common ground when it comes to pollution. With todays techology pollution can be traced back to it's origin every single time, its industry, business, farms and is at this very moment affecting people and the environment in bad ways. Unfortunetaly the greatest source of pollution is you and I, the consumers and our lust for convenience. But we, including me, the same people who stand for all thats noble like clean air, water, green grass and rainforests, health of little monkeys, blah blah etc. etc. Oh we'll say how much everyone else should care but will ourselves refuse to give up our trinkets, computers, remote controls, transportation, and a multitude of other things which fill up the shelves in our homes I don't see any solution to pollution.

Just find it hard to really give a rats arse about the arguement trying to link pollution to global warming. When we have already linked pollution to cancer, birth defects, disease, fish kills, contaminated ground water etc. etc. etc. on a global scale and still even after all the hard evidence of that nothing has really changed.

But if it helps, I concede, you win, pollution has caused global warming la-dee-da. Now what?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

No, I don't think its a contradiction. I knew when I was 9 years old a warming trend exsisted. The problem I had then is just as people have now. That is no one person on this planet has the answer why. I think trying to argue that pollution causes something that has been happening for 18,000 years is at best futile.

Who is saying that pollution is the sole cause? Pollution has exacerbated a natural trend.
In regards to why, the main reason is because we've only been able to collect atmospheric records since 1850, and since these trends take thousands of years to peak and fall, we just don't have enough atmospheric data. However, we can see the effect that the changes had in geography through fossil records, soil samples and tree rings.
If I had to take a stab in the dark, I'd say that there is no one real cause, it's a combination of factors, solar activity, geological activity, even botanical activity, which all combine together to create these peaks and troughs.

Global warming AND cooling is as science has shown a very naturally occurring phenomenon, whats to be afraid of? Prepare for it like you would any other weather system or season. Gets cold? then dress warm, floods? move to higher ground. Get too hot? wear sunscreen. Shouldn't be a problem we've done it all our life. I think the causes of global warming is an endless argument and big distraction.

The thing is, people aren't preparing for it. We have a bigger footprint on the planet than at any time in our history, which means that when something happens it effects more people. In regards to flooding, there are millions, if not billions of people living on flood plains, some might not even realise that they are because they haven't flooded in hundreds of years. A hundred year storm rolls through and suddenly they're underwater.
Building companies are only too happy to build on flood plains because it's cheap, but home owners will find that their insurance company suddenly won't insure their home.
Cold means more energy usage, more people going to hospital through illnesses and accidents. Take a look at places in the south of America when snow first rolls through, it's carnage, people skid off the road because they don't know how to drive in snow.
Getting too hot means more energy usage in air conditioners, it means drought, it means crop problems, forest fires.
It really isn't as simple as you seem to think it is. Extreme conditions bring extreme problems. Just ask people in Australia.
Sure, we have done it through human history, but our society is a lot more fragile and a lot more easy to damage than ever before.
Take two hurricanes, the 1856 Last Island hurricane and Hurricane Katrina, both hit New Orleans, the 1856 storm was actually a bit more intense than Katrina, and yet while Katrina caused 1,577 deaths in New Orleans, the 1856 storm caused over 200, certainly no more than 300. Now, I don't know how much financial damage the 1856 storm caused, but I'd wager that it wasn't $108 billion. Why? because New Orleans wasn't even half the size that it is now.
Another example? In 1869 a Category 3 hurricane swept ashore in Rhode Island, caused a handful and some damage. Hurricane Sandy came ashore as a category 2 (weaker than the 1869 storm), killed about 233 people and cost $68 billion worth of damage.

Out of the top ten most costly Atlantic hurricanes, only 1 of them did not occur within the last fifteen years.

We are getting weaker to strong climatic events, not helped by the fact that most of our major cities are near the sea.

However I believe we have some common ground when it comes to pollution. With todays techology pollution can be traced back to it's origin every single time, its industry, business, farms and is at this very moment affecting people and the environment in bad ways. Unfortunetaly the greatest source of pollution is you and I, the consumers and our lust for convenience. But we including me, the same people who stand for all thats noble clean air, water, green grass and rainforests, health of little monkeys, blah blah etc. etc. Refuse to give up our trinkets, computers, remote controls, transportation, and a multitude of other things which fill up the shelves in our homes. So I don't see any solution to pollution either but then I'm not one to sweat the small stuff, lifes too short.

Alas, this is correct. However, we are improving, slowly but surely we are definitely improving. Like I said before, chances are the current climatic conditions are caused by pollution from back when you were born, and since we didn't really started taking steps to reduce pollution until the great Ozone Hole scandal of the 1980s, there's a few decades to go yet until we see any change, if indeed there is going to be any. It could yet be that we've passed the point of no return and things are going to continue this way no matter what we do. However, when you look at some of the pollution taking place in places like China, you can see what we're avoiding, what we're making sure doesn't happen for our children and their children.
The River Thames might not be the most hygienic river in the world, but it's a grand improvement now from even sixty years ago, and definitely a massive improvement from 1858 when it stank so much from human excrement and waste that parliament was forced to dip the curtains of the windows facing the Thames in Lime Chloride to try and disguise the smell.
Fortunately the unsung hero of London, Joseph Bazalgette designed a series of underground sewers and helped save London from a smelly, not to mention disease ridden fate.

If we were starting from scratch with the knowledge we have now, then we could build cities that would last for a few centuries at least, inland, with ample infrastructure to weather the changing elements, but we've got hundreds of years of old buildings which are not able to cope with todays climate, and short of building an entire new city for somewhere like New York (New New York?) and then evacuating everyone from it then as more Hurricanes sweep in and sea levels rise there are going to be costly disasters. Disasters that the US government will have to prepare for, that FEMA will have to deal with, and we will have to adjust, to get used to seeing more Sandys, more blizzards and forest fires and such forth.
Climate change won't kill us, but it is going to make our lives a bit more difficult.

[Von Tonner]

A very interesting article without getting too techy on how the sun can misbehave and the consequences to us on mother earth.

http://mg.co.za/article/2015-02-19-h...f-the-sunstorm

[ikalugin]

How about we nuke USA and reverse the global warming trend?

[STEED]

A friend of mind once said America must go veggie to save the world, this nation of carnivores is killing us all.

As for me...The gravy train is wonderful if you can get on board and make big money.

[ikalugin]

On positive side - global warming would make Russia into a naval country made out of island chains.

[ikalugin]

Also, Russia continues to get new ice breakers.

[Platapus]

That's why I am a shade worshiper.