What got you interested in WWII submarines?

[merc4ulfate]

My interest is simple ... the hunt.

The submarine is the sniper of the seas. It's motivation is not to move swiftly nor brandish its power but to quietly and with stealth subdue it's target into a false sense of safety and strike in silence delivering it's target lethality and a swift and cleansing rest in a watery grave.

The hunt is the goal ... the kill is not.

Be swift and merciful in your killing. Your enemy is your brother and his suffering blackens your heart. There are times where killing is a necessity but the joy of killing is never fruitful.

[Sledgehammer427]

Long story short I bought a 4 game pack from a store at the age of 5 to play Fighting Steel, the surface combat simulator. In that pack was Silent Hunter Commanders edition and I started gaining interest, especially after the release of U-571. After a long hiatus because of school and entering young adulthood I returned to SH3 in '07 and made an account here.
It's all been up, down, and around including through the hill ever since

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

Long story short I bought a 4 game pack from a store at the age of 5 to play Fighting Steel, the surface combat simulator. In that pack was Silent Hunter Commanders edition and I started gaining interest, especially after the release of U-571. After a long hiatus because of school and entering young adulthood I returned to SH3 in '07 and made an account here.
It's all been up, down, and around including through the hill ever since

Are you refering to the film U571? A complete work of fiction bearing no resemblance to actuality. It got slagged in the UK and hardly got a viewing in cinemas. Typical Hollywood trash.

[Sledgehammer427]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Are you refering to the film U571? A complete work of fiction bearing no resemblance to actuality. It got slagged in the UK and hardly got a viewing in cinemas. Typical Hollywood trash.

Aye, thats the movie. It was very appealing in the theater although I was read up enough on the real history to know it was a complete farce.

[mikica1974]

I have been playing for years 1-5 silent hunter I find the men who served on submarines as the günter prien're right heroes have been in the naval warfare and were every day exposed to death and who are my great heroes who are very brave in the naval war against the enemy in order to fight this because I inspire to the u-boot and their teams and have read many books about the u-boat war

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mikica1974

I have been playing for years 1-5 silent hunter I find the men who served on submarines as the günter prien're right heroes have been in the naval warfare and were every day exposed to death and who are my great heroes who are very brave in the naval war against the enemy in order to fight this because I inspire to the u-boot and their teams and have read many books about the u-boat war

Welcome Aboard

[neilbyrne]

Like most war babies of the forties, I watched a lot of WWII movies and TV growing up, Victory at Sea, Silent Service, etc. Read a lot also and have a considerable naval library.

What I really wanted tho was a great WWII surface battles game, but none has materialized.

I have my own surface game for miniatures which is quite extensive. After I retired from the USN, I had a consulting business for the following ten years. Three times I convinced one of my clients to send me to the Electronics Entertainment Expo (E3) the gaming industry's primo convention in LA. It's a gas, but the E-ticket runs $600+, mostly I found out to keep the curious kids out. In any case, I made several aquaintances in the industry there and pitched my game at them for computerization. Folks at E3 are unfailingly polite and forthcoming unlike most of the Defense Dept. conferences I've attended. Finally, one friend, a producer for Microsoft X-Box put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Neil, forget it. Naval games don't make enough money and the industry thinks they are more boring than C-Span."

So SH is the closest I can get and my model ships still come out of the display case and duke it out on the living room floor.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by neilbyrne

Finally, one friend, a producer for Microsoft X-Box put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Neil, forget it. Naval games don't make enough money and the industry thinks they are more boring than C-Span."

So, nobody invests in naval sims because they aren't successful, and, they aren't successful because nobody invests in them?

[neilbyrne]

So, nobody invests in naval sims because they aren't successful, and, they aren't successful because nobody invests in them?

No I don't think that's what he meant. The last two of these SH games just barely broke even if that. So it's not worth the investment to them to then not make a profit or take a loss.

One of the lessons I drew from my involvement with the gaming folks was that the industry resembles other forms of entertainment to the extent that as Fred Allen once remarked, "Imitation is the sincerest form of television." If sitcoms are hits make more sitcoms; it's why there are so many sequels in movies.

The production costs for a top flight game are now so enormous, they take as few chances as possible.

Sid Meier is the Steven Spielberg of game designers. Last time I looked, something like 20% of the games in the hall of fame were his designs. I sat thru a speech of his once at E3 in which he lamented just this issue. Where's the innovation? Why can't we do something other than Call of Duty XXII and Assassin's Creed XI?

For almost all the formative years of the industry, they were hardware limited. The machines couldn't do what the designers envisioned, but Meier made the point in his speech that those days were over. The hardware was approaching movie quality graphics capability and now they were imagination limited. This hardware advance has actually worsened the imagination problem tho. Every year the bar gets ratcheted up to get even better graphics because the hardware can do it now which increases development costs which then increases risk avoidance strategies even more.

So if you are a development house like Creative Artists say and you are going in to pitch a new startup game genre or a revision of a dead line to a production company like Sega and that genre has a crappy sales record or none, you're in for heavy sledding. You're asking them to bet ~$25-50 million on your idea. At $50 or even $75 per box, that's a lot of boxes before they even make their nut back and profits start coming in. So you can see the issue with naval games. No one is going to invest the money required to mine the market based on uncertain interest and past poor performance.

We know that we'd accept less than current industry standards of graphics to get a decent game, but that's not sellable because the largest demographic slice that buys games is young males early teens to late twenties. Most of whom are enthralled with the coolness of graphic violence, have been unencumbered by the education system with historical curiosity and are uninterested in things that happen at the blinding speed of 10-15 knots.

[merc4ulfate]

Naval games don't make enough money and the industry thinks they are more boring than C-Span


You could not prove that with all the 688 fans there used to be on the internet playing multi-player submarine battles and co-ops against each other. I'd say Sonalyst disproved that myth.

These days there is a desire for realism.

Give them a multi-player online-realitime naval war game ... they will eat it up.

Lets see ... new russckie sub out now. Chinese and Iranians making diesel-electrics9which everyone knows is quieter than nukes), global instability, sea ice melting so now there is controversy over who owns what and a brand spanking new Russian naval base up there since the ice melted and opened up new water ways ... sounds like someone could make a mint with a new naval warfare strike package.

I can see the game working on a couple of fronts. Russian aggressors and Iranian militants along with Chinese paranoia and Japanese disputed territory.

Perhaps two sides:Aggressive militant
Russian obstinance

and

United States and the British new boat.

Nuke hunter killers against diesel-electrics.

ROE's can get a little dicey when your ordered not to fire unless fired upon even when you know that D/E boat is up to no good. You fire to soon and mission over game calls you out for being to aggressive. Hone your hunting skills waiting for the right moment to attack.

Might also switch back and forth from air ASW search (better hone your listening skills and arrays drop zones) and submarine command.

Maybe you have a D/E and there is a nice U.S. Carrier swimming up the Persian Gulf. Take it out ... but will the ASW take you out as well or maybe you have a Virginia Class nuke on your tail and you do not even know it. Open your tube doors and your dead in the water before you say ... allaggggrrrrhhhhhh as you drown from spraying sea water.

I think they would find a new generation of subsim fans with a game like that.