Excited/ dissapointed it will be PTO?

[corvette k225]

For me it will allways be NAO or SAO my thinking is sales for SHIV will less than SHIII, because of world wide sales, When you think of subs of WWII most people think of German u-boats! Lets hope we see SHV, U -boat of the north atlantic, If we get a SHV it will be around 2008 in the fall. I hope!!!!

[Reece]

Since SH4 is using the SH3 engine it makes sense that it be Pacific Theatre, wouldn't be much point in using the same engine to do the same Theatre, who would really pay for a rehashed SH3? This way we get both theatres & SH5 & 6 (new engine) will probably be the same, it's great!
You can be sure however the modding community will probably come out with an add-on so as to have some of the new goodies of SH4 in an Atlantic Theatre.
I noticed from one of the SH4 trailers that the men seem to be rather larger than in SH3, does this mean all environment is bigger (more FPS)? or was that just the way it was displayed?

[Threadfin]

I'm very happy to get a new Pacific sub sim. I still play Pacific Aces.

I think, if done right, the challenge in SH4 will moreso be sinking targets, less so survival. It's too easy to sink ships in SH3, due to low speeds, lack of zig plans, and very reliable torpedos.

If SH4 is done with historical accuracy the real challenge in SH4 will be not coming home skunked.

[DeepSix]

Originally Posted by Type941

...Sadly it seems this spirit of making things not mainstream is out of Ubisoft, regardles of how much hype this game they give.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, and my reply is meant to be more of a general one than a specific response to your post, but how exactly are WWII American subs not mainstream?

The Americans had the largest submarine power in the whole flippin' theater - second largest in the world - and yet I read posts asking for Japanese subs of a type and class in which only four were built.... Sorry if I sound defensive, but it doesn't add up. We should demand that the devs throw in some playable native fishing boats or outrigger canoes - just to make sure no one gets left out....

It wouldn't have made any sense to include Allied subs in SH3, because even though there were a few of them in the Atlantic, the Atlantic sub war was dominated by the u-boats. Likewise, the Pacific submarine war was essentially fought by U.S. subs against Japanese merchants and warships. Why should a Pacific sub game be about anything else?

???

[Beery]

Originally Posted by DeepSix

yet I read posts asking for Japanese subs of a type and class in which only four were built.... Sorry if I sound defensive, but it doesn't add up. We should demand that the devs throw in some playable native fishing boats or outrigger canoes - just to make sure no one gets left out....

Firstly, this is to be a submarine game, not a canoe or fishing boat sim. I realise you're joking, but it's a poor jest when it serves only to deride other players' desires. More importantly, there is no reason whatsoever for players to be treated with derision purely for making a request for playable Japanese subs. Japanese subs took part in the Pacific War, so their existence in a game of submarine warfare in the Pacific is hardly something to be dismissed out of hand.

Most importantly, there is ample precedent for rare sub types to be modelled and playable. SH3 modelled the Type XXI when only two were ready for combat by the war's end. SH3 also modelled the Type VIIC/42 when none of that type were ever even built!

So let's give our fellow players' requests the respect they deserve.

Personally I'd like to see Japanese and British subs modelled - including very rare models. No one's gonna tell me that such a desire is worthy of ridicule. I don't care if such subs aren't mainstream; I don't care if such subs played virtually no part in the war. If I want to sail in such vessels I have not only the right but the responsibility to request it. Hell, there wouldn't even be a Pacific sub sim if people only went with the mainstream - we'd be stuck with the most popular theatre, and only able to use the most popular U-boat. I'm sure it would be real fun to only have the choice of playing a game based on the Type VIIC boat - I'd probably play such a game for about a week until I got bored with sailing in the same boat all the time.

[DeepSix]

Originally Posted by Beery

...So let's give our fellow players' requests the respect they deserve.

Please read the first line of my post. I said my response was a general one, not aimed at anybody in particular. I meant no disrespect and to be honest I resent the implication that I did.

@Type941 - For the sake of getting it on the record clearly, I meant no disrespect - but I *did* mean to disagree with you and I'm not apologizing for that. I think the reason we have the forum is to discuss, and that's all I meant to do. We're all splitting hairs over this as-yet unseen product anyway. My apologies in advance if I offended anybody.

Personally I'd like to see Japanese and British subs modelled - including very rare models...

Fine - mod them.

Peace out.

[Type941]

ah... when did this turn into an argument? Was it my fault? Sorry. Not meant to be. I'm not asking to sabsitute US subs with Jap subs, but from educational point of view, I'm just so much more interested in the non traditional, less talked about and shown on Discovery type of thing, not your average US ww2 sub shown in so many movies. That's just me though. I hope devs at LEAST allow people to mod the game. If they are not budgeted for Jap or Soviet (forget it) and UK subs, that's fine, but don't lock the game that makes it a crime basically in modern PC gaming world. If you Devs keep locking games up, we'll stop buying them even. If new consoles turn out so good, allow for simulation, I would not touch a non moddable PC game. To me a PC game is best first of all for my ability to mod it. That's the gist of my message - give me the US sub but at least let me mod it to a japanese one. But Looking at how difficult modding of SH3 goes, I am not holding my breath.

Besides, I'm also hoping this game won't be some sort of hidden message of fight against the evil doers by brave american soldiers, connected to current world order, supplemented by comparable dialogoues and cut scenes.

Asking for a moddable, modern, high tech, WW2 sim, being fine with in Pacific, hope that's cleared now.


PS. At the beginning of the war, Soviet navy quite possible had the largest submarine fleet.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Type941

PS. At the beginning of the war, Soviet navy quite possible had the largest submarine fleet.

Yes, they did but in four widely separated bodies of water -Northern, Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific. They were poorly maintained and lacked modern communications, sonar and even torpedo fire control equipment. Most of the commanders had zero initiative or direction from above. In the one area they might have made a difference, the Baltic - the U-Boat training ground and vital lifeline to the German armaments industry- they were shut behind minefields and extensive multiple net barriers and so harried by ASW forces they accomplished little.

I'd much rather be a Japanese sub commander than a Russian one.

[Type941]

Ok ok, they were sh*t, let's go back to whatever but them.

[TangoShadow]

Hi,

I thought the Atlantic was where the majority of U-Boat operations took place, and where most of the historic battles occurred?? The Pacific was small-time by comparison, was it not?

Personally 'd like to see some more work done on SH3 (I know it isn't going to happen outside of the mod community). More compartments on the boat, improved interior damage modelling (i.e. more of it), and a few more bug fixes.

--TangoShadow

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by TangoShadow

Hi,

I thought the Atlantic was where the majority of U-Boat operations took place, and where most of the historic battles occurred?? The Pacific was small-time by comparison, was it not?

Except for sinking more than 1,100 merchants, eight aircraft carriers, three heavy cruisers, a battleship, and eight light cruisers, cutting off the supply of oil and supplies to Japan and nearly blockading them into surrender, no, American submarines didn't accomplish much in the Pacific.

American submarines also managed to sink a whopping total of zero German ships during 86 Atlantic patrols. So if that sounds exciting to you, you might want to get on the horn with UbiSoft.

[DS]

The Silent Hunter series was born in the PTO, and it is more than time to revisit the PTO in my opinion. I first got into submarine simulations with the first Silent Hunter, but I have played every submarine simulation that has come out since, and a few that pre-date SH1.

The U.S. Silent Service's war in the Pacific is rich both in terms of history and culture, and in terms of variety of mission types, environments, and operational considerations. While the u-boat war is also of interest to me, my simulation interests really lie with U.S. Submarines in the Pacific.

While the U-boats of WW2 were mostly aimed at merchant shipping in open and usually deep water (there were a few exceptions, I know), U.S submarines engaged in merchant shipping attacks, warship attacks, supporting naval and amphibious operations, special forces insertions/extractions, aircrew recovery, harbour penetrations, littoral warfare, reconaisance, evacuations, and even operated in conjuction with allied surface forces (what the large and fast "fleet" boats were built for). As such, I believe there is a wider variety of mission types and challenges for virtual skippers in the PTO.

Also, as previously stated, a Gato, Balao, or Tench class boat is a whole different kettle of fish in terms of size, fire power, and in the later years, even technology (PPI radar, and even air conditioning!). With the exception of the Type XXI, I regard u-boats as very heartily built and commanded, but slightly more primative boats (less speed, range, size, firepower, and equipment). That said, I love them for what they were.

The U.S. fleet boats for me though, had more pesonality (named vs. numbered, battle flags and unit citations for boats, as opposed to awards for officers and crews in the german navy), and accomplishments generally were associated more with the boat (skippers rotated after 4-6 patrols in the U.S. Navy) than with the skipper or crew, whereas the accomplishments in the U-boat service tend to be associated with famous skippers more than famous hulls.

Also, the submarine war in the Pacific is well documented through books and movies (Run Silent-Run Deep, Operation Pacific, Crash Dive, Torpedo Alley, and Destination Tokyo for starters)

For me, it is definately time to return to the PTO, and resurrect the stories of the USS Wahoo, USS Tang, USS Barb, and all the other boats that all travelled far and long from arctic to tropical waters, from the deep blue ocean to the painfully shallow waters of Tokyo Bay, and sank such a massive amount of shipping that Japan was strangled from the sea.

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by DS

The Silent Hunter series was born in the PTO, and it is more than time to revisit the PTO in my opinion. I first got into submarine simulations with the first Silent Hunter, but I have played every submarine simulation that has come out since, and a few that pre-date SH1.

The U.S. Silent Service's war in the Pacific is rich both in terms of history and culture, and in terms of variety of mission types, environments, and operational considerations. While the u-boat war is also of interest to me, my simulation interests really lie with U.S. Submarines in the Pacific.

While the U-boats of WW2 were mostly aimed at merchant shipping in open and usually deep water (there were a few exceptions, I know), U.S submarines engaged in merchant shipping attacks, warship attacks, supporting naval and amphibious operations, special forces insertions/extractions, aircrew recovery, harbour penetrations, littoral warfare, reconaisance, evacuations, and even operated in conjuction with allied surface forces (what the large and fast "fleet" boats were built for). As such, I believe there is a wider variety of mission types and challenges for virtual skippers in the PTO.

Also, as previously stated, a Gato, Balao, or Tench class boat is a whole different kettle of fish in terms of size, fire power, and in the later years, even technology (PPI radar, and even air conditioning!). With the exception of the Type XXI, I regard u-boats as very heartily built and commanded, but slightly more primative boats (less speed, range, size, firepower, and equipment). That said, I love them for what they were.

The U.S. fleet boats for me though, had more pesonality (named vs. numbered, battle flags and unit citations for boats, as opposed to awards for officers and crews in the german navy), and accomplishments generally were associated more with the boat (skippers rotated after 4-6 patrols in the U.S. Navy) than with the skipper or crew, whereas the accomplishments in the U-boat service tend to be associated with famous skippers more than famous hulls.

Also, the submarine war in the Pacific is well documented through books and movies (Run Silent-Run Deep, Operation Pacific, Crash Dive, Torpedo Alley, and Destination Tokyo for starters)

For me, it is definately time to return to the PTO, and resurrect the stories of the USS Wahoo, USS Tang, USS Barb, and all the other boats that all travelled far and long from arctic to tropical waters, from the deep blue ocean to the painfully shallow waters of Tokyo Bay, and sank such a massive amount of shipping that Japan was strangled from the sea.

Well said DS.

My sim gaming experience started with this exact setup in the PTO and it's been a long time for me from Silent Service.

I most certainly miss hitting the typical shipping lanes searching for those small groups of well protected Marus not too terribly far away from land. It's a nice change from big convoys in the open ocean.

I'm sure everyone will enjoy it immensely even being set in a theater they don't know much about or don't care for much.

[Dietrich]

Yes... I'm disappointed. But I understand that other people want to play Pacific for a change and that there are a lot of Americans who want to play their home side. That's alright. SH4 can be a practise run for SH5.

[Theta Sigma]

Originally Posted by Dietrich

Yes... I'm disappointed. But I understand that other people want to play Pacific for a change and that there are a lot of Americans who want to play their home side. That's alright. SH4 can be a practise run for SH5.

I'm American, and I want to play the Japanese side.