Pros and Cons - Current Tank Sims (and your recommendations?)

ZeeWolf · 08-03-10, 06:14 PM

Welcome aboard zossy!

ZeeWolf

ZW's new playable Tiger E1 mid version

frinik · 08-03-10, 09:54 PM

Zossy , just to add my grain of salt.Steel Beast is a simulator software developed by professionals working for NATO and used ny NATO countries.It´s way above the competition because it´s just that a simulator forst and foremost that became a game by default.It features current, state-of-the-art armour the like of which has never existed before.That explains the relatively high purchase price, the degree of sophistication and the somewhat understated graphics.It was not intended as entertainment or gaming; at least not initially.In my opinion compàring SB with the others is like the proverbial apples and oranges.....

The others whether Steel Fury, TvsT, Panzer Elite etc where never intended to faithfully recreate tank warfare in order to train people but merely as historical recreation intended to entertain sim fans and provide hours of fun either as single player or multi.I called them simulation games as opposed to SB which is simulation training software turned into a game. The sim games allows us to live or experience in a remote fashion what is was like to fight in behemoths like the Tigers, Panthers, T34s or Shermans in the greatest and bloodiest conflict ever experienced by mankind.The costs are also not comparable, SB is expensive whereas the others can be purchased cheaply.You get what you pay for which does not detract the fact that both TvsT and SF offer good value for their price as does SB but on different levels.

Once you accept those differences you can decide whether you want to go for the serious SB which will really allow you what it feels like to manoeuvre the best armour the modern world has to offer:the Leopard 2A6, the MA1Abrams, the Challenger 2 and their Russian counterparts or would you rather play entertaining but less realistic and sophisticated sim games...

Up to you.Although of you can afford SB as well as SF and TvsT then you can sample a bit of everything.

Hope we haven´t bombarded you too much with too many options but since you asked for a recommendation....

Skybird · 08-04-10, 06:22 AM

I just want to add that SBP may be meant as a pro trainign tool, but it can be handled like any simple action game, if wanted. Also, the range of vehicles is consantly growing, and the MBTs now range back to the M60 and the T-62 and T-55 (plus plenty IFVs and APCs). If switiching off modern systems like laser, thermals, NVGs, and battling with optical sights only, you can do battle in WWII style with quite old tanks now - just with hopelessly superior tactical options and mission diversity possible - and in much bigger scenarios (if you want you can have batallions and regiments/brigagdes. Whether or not it make ssense to set up such big scenarios, is something totally different).

I also must line out that SF and TvT suffer from imo seriously flawed design features, in case of SF i mention a very incompetent AI, small mission scale, very bad sound environment (no distance-volume relation, no sound travelling delay, no differing of own tank from that tank 2 km away getting hit). with the original release, which I tested, I found mkissions to become very simplistic and repetitive very soon. Tactical challenge: zero. In case of TvT, which I only tested one afternoon on somebody else's system some time ago, I must mention the immense technical problems of the original release (preventing many people from even launching nthe game, and non-working internet play), and the simplistic, ver ylinear mission gameplay that rmeinded of any action game. Did I perceive it wrong ir do enemies even respawn if the player does not advance in the prefixed linear way to the next ingame progress point? I had the very strong impression, but I did not play it long. In what it does, the game looks nice, but it does not much, and other than that it left me unimpressed: tactical challenge: zero.

So, for the quick break in the office that may be good enough, like "Moorhuhn Shooting". More I cannot get from these two.

I do not wish to piss any modders here, to make that clear. If people like some game and invest time into adding skins and vehicles to it, there is nothing to say against that enthusiasm. but I think fairness demands to also reveal the deficits of a game to somebody still considering whether or not he separates from his money, since I see both games as problematic. The games may be cheap now, but they are not free. SBP may look more expensive than usual games, but the durability per buck ratio for SBP is extremely high, making it a cheap title, whereas even with the low price of SF and TvT, the durability per buck ratio is very low, making the games if not expensive then at leat not as cheap as they look.

Edit
P.S. Just realised that I partially repeated myself. Sorry for that, I did not mean to squeeze my thoughts into your jaw.

Skybird · 08-04-10, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Welcome aboard zossy!

ZeeWolf

ZW's new playable Tiger E1 mid version

As I said, the looks of TvT are good!

frinik · 08-04-10, 10:46 AM

Again my experience with Steel Fury differs from Skybird´s.Yes the AI can be dumb at times but on balance I would say it´s acceptable . The infantry ducks, takes cover and acts very human'like at times.The tanks will try to outflank or catch you by surprise.Certainly compared to Panzer Elite or TvsT it´s much better( although ZeeWolf has made solid strides with TvsT's AI).I have been playing it for 2 years and there are over 90 missions now depending on the mods and the mission editor is user-friendly which allows me to make my taste-tailored missions.TvsT true enough was very linear and ultimately a dead end as the ME is hard to crack and no new missions or addons were being produced.That has changed with ZeeWolf's mods.

If you were playing M1A1 tank platoon you may feel more at home with SB( I ´ve never played M1A1 so I am just assuming).

Best way to find out which one is for you is to download the free demos. SB, SF and TvsT have free demos you can download and try before you make a choice.

ht-57 · 08-05-10, 05:01 PM

My 2 cents...
Steel fury is fun for a while....But sbprope is by far, the smoothest running, longest lasting title to ever grace this ole pc. best buck fifty I spent on a sim bar none!

ZeeWolf · 08-05-10, 06:24 PM

Hey Skybird!
Don't forget this quote:

"Just because someone is a self righteous, sanctimonious, genius does not mean they know how to tell the truth" -Karl Popper

ZeeWolf

frinik · 08-05-10, 08:34 PM

Ouch Zee!It sounds like you just fired a Panzergranate 39 from your great looking Tiger Ausf.H I just can´t wait to play.Skybird Hull down Man ! You´re under attack....

This is what´s great about this forum. we may differ, disagree, counter each other etc but it´s never acrimonious and once the gunsmoke has dissipated there are no hard feelings.

As I said before in a different post everybody has different tastes.I like SB very much and enjoy playing it but SF and TvsT have a different appeal as they deal with a different period and I enjoy very much playing with ZeeWolf´s work and the SF modders´ labour.

I avoid comparisons because to me it´s like comparing driving a classic antique car from the 30s, 40s or 50s and then comparing it to the latest Mercedes, Porsche, Maserati or Lotus.I personally don´t care about classic cars from the old days and I much prefer modern cars with their technology and sophistication but at the same time I understand why some people are fascinated and worship oldies like I feel more attracted to WW2 sims than modern ones.Likewise some guys prefer mature women to young ones.....

We could spend hours or days tossing arguments pro and con the various sims-games mentioned above but in the end it´s really what makes one tick that matters .

Cheers!

Skybird · 08-06-10, 03:10 AM

Its not so much comparing an antique sports car versus a modern sports car, it is more like comparing an antique toy model of a car against a modern real sport car.

I would not have any problem with playing WWII tank sims, and I did in the past (Panzer Elite). If I have a principal problem with WWII matter, I would not have tested SF and even pay money for it, nor would have have done IL2 and BoB and SH3. The problem I have is that TvT and SF do not do well what they do - no matter whether i compare them to SBP or take them for themselves, or compare them to any other quality sim. They deliver the looks of the times, but not the functionality that one must demand in a good sim in order to label it as that: a good sim. thats why back then I gave SF two final scores: taken as an action game I gave it a B, taken as a sim I gave it a D-, if i remember correctly.

08-03-10, 09:54 PM	#2
frinik Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 897 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	recommendations Zossy , just to add my grain of salt.Steel Beast is a simulator software developed by professionals working for NATO and used ny NATO countries.It´s way above the competition because it´s just that a simulator forst and foremost that became a game by default.It features current, state-of-the-art armour the like of which has never existed before.That explains the relatively high purchase price, the degree of sophistication and the somewhat understated graphics.It was not intended as entertainment or gaming; at least not initially.In my opinion compàring SB with the others is like the proverbial apples and oranges..... The others whether Steel Fury, TvsT, Panzer Elite etc where never intended to faithfully recreate tank warfare in order to train people but merely as historical recreation intended to entertain sim fans and provide hours of fun either as single player or multi.I called them simulation games as opposed to SB which is simulation training software turned into a game. The sim games allows us to live or experience in a remote fashion what is was like to fight in behemoths like the Tigers, Panthers, T34s or Shermans in the greatest and bloodiest conflict ever experienced by mankind.The costs are also not comparable, SB is expensive whereas the others can be purchased cheaply.You get what you pay for which does not detract the fact that both TvsT and SF offer good value for their price as does SB but on different levels. Once you accept those differences you can decide whether you want to go for the serious SB which will really allow you what it feels like to manoeuvre the best armour the modern world has to offer:the Leopard 2A6, the MA1Abrams, the Challenger 2 and their Russian counterparts or would you rather play entertaining but less realistic and sophisticated sim games... Up to you.Although of you can afford SB as well as SF and TvsT then you can sample a bit of everything. Hope we haven´t bombarded you too much with too many options but since you asked for a recommendation.... Last edited by frinik; 08-03-10 at 11:30 PM.

08-04-10, 06:22 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,679 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I just want to add that SBP may be meant as a pro trainign tool, but it can be handled like any simple action game, if wanted. Also, the range of vehicles is consantly growing, and the MBTs now range back to the M60 and the T-62 and T-55 (plus plenty IFVs and APCs). If switiching off modern systems like laser, thermals, NVGs, and battling with optical sights only, you can do battle in WWII style with quite old tanks now - just with hopelessly superior tactical options and mission diversity possible - and in much bigger scenarios (if you want you can have batallions and regiments/brigagdes. Whether or not it make ssense to set up such big scenarios, is something totally different). I also must line out that SF and TvT suffer from imo seriously flawed design features, in case of SF i mention a very incompetent AI, small mission scale, very bad sound environment (no distance-volume relation, no sound travelling delay, no differing of own tank from that tank 2 km away getting hit). with the original release, which I tested, I found mkissions to become very simplistic and repetitive very soon. Tactical challenge: zero. In case of TvT, which I only tested one afternoon on somebody else's system some time ago, I must mention the immense technical problems of the original release (preventing many people from even launching nthe game, and non-working internet play), and the simplistic, ver ylinear mission gameplay that rmeinded of any action game. Did I perceive it wrong ir do enemies even respawn if the player does not advance in the prefixed linear way to the next ingame progress point? I had the very strong impression, but I did not play it long. In what it does, the game looks nice, but it does not much, and other than that it left me unimpressed: tactical challenge: zero. So, for the quick break in the office that may be good enough, like "Moorhuhn Shooting". More I cannot get from these two. I do not wish to piss any modders here, to make that clear. If people like some game and invest time into adding skins and vehicles to it, there is nothing to say against that enthusiasm. but I think fairness demands to also reveal the deficits of a game to somebody still considering whether or not he separates from his money, since I see both games as problematic. The games may be cheap now, but they are not free. SBP may look more expensive than usual games, but the durability per buck ratio for SBP is extremely high, making it a cheap title, whereas even with the low price of SF and TvT, the durability per buck ratio is very low, making the games if not expensive then at leat not as cheap as they look. Edit P.S. Just realised that I partially repeated myself. Sorry for that, I did not mean to squeeze my thoughts into your jaw. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-04-10 at 06:40 AM.

08-04-10, 10:46 AM	#5
frinik Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 897 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	demos Again my experience with Steel Fury differs from Skybird´s.Yes the AI can be dumb at times but on balance I would say it´s acceptable . The infantry ducks, takes cover and acts very human'like at times.The tanks will try to outflank or catch you by surprise.Certainly compared to Panzer Elite or TvsT it´s much better( although ZeeWolf has made solid strides with TvsT's AI).I have been playing it for 2 years and there are over 90 missions now depending on the mods and the mission editor is user-friendly which allows me to make my taste-tailored missions.TvsT true enough was very linear and ultimately a dead end as the ME is hard to crack and no new missions or addons were being produced.That has changed with ZeeWolf's mods. If you were playing M1A1 tank platoon you may feel more at home with SB( I ´ve never played M1A1 so I am just assuming). Best way to find out which one is for you is to download the free demos. SB, SF and TvsT have free demos you can download and try before you make a choice.

08-05-10, 06:24 PM	#7
ZeeWolf Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Great NorthWest Posts: 1,724 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 1	Hey Skybird! Don't forget this quote: "Just because someone is a self righteous, sanctimonious, genius does not mean they know how to tell the truth" -Karl Popper ZeeWolf Last edited by ZeeWolf; 08-05-10 at 10:06 PM.

08-05-10, 08:34 PM	#8
frinik Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 897 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Old versus New Ouch Zee!It sounds like you just fired a Panzergranate 39 from your great looking Tiger Ausf.H I just can´t wait to play.Skybird Hull down Man ! You´re under attack.... This is what´s great about this forum. we may differ, disagree, counter each other etc but it´s never acrimonious and once the gunsmoke has dissipated there are no hard feelings. As I said before in a different post everybody has different tastes.I like SB very much and enjoy playing it but SF and TvsT have a different appeal as they deal with a different period and I enjoy very much playing with ZeeWolf´s work and the SF modders´ labour. I avoid comparisons because to me it´s like comparing driving a classic antique car from the 30s, 40s or 50s and then comparing it to the latest Mercedes, Porsche, Maserati or Lotus.I personally don´t care about classic cars from the old days and I much prefer modern cars with their technology and sophistication but at the same time I understand why some people are fascinated and worship oldies like I feel more attracted to WW2 sims than modern ones.Likewise some guys prefer mature women to young ones..... We could spend hours or days tossing arguments pro and con the various sims-games mentioned above but in the end it´s really what makes one tick that matters . Cheers!

08-03-10, 06:14 PM	#1
ZeeWolf Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Great NorthWest Posts: 1,724 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 1	Welcome aboard zossy! ZeeWolf ZW's new playable Tiger E1 mid version

08-05-10, 05:01 PM	#6
ht-57 Sailor man Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 50 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	My 2 cents... Steel fury is fun for a while....But sbprope is by far, the smoothest running, longest lasting title to ever grace this ole pc. best buck fifty I spent on a sim bar none!

08-06-10, 03:10 AM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,679 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Its not so much comparing an antique sports car versus a modern sports car, it is more like comparing an antique toy model of a car against a modern real sport car. I would not have any problem with playing WWII tank sims, and I did in the past (Panzer Elite). If I have a principal problem with WWII matter, I would not have tested SF and even pay money for it, nor would have have done IL2 and BoB and SH3. The problem I have is that TvT and SF do not do well what they do - no matter whether i compare them to SBP or take them for themselves, or compare them to any other quality sim. They deliver the looks of the times, but not the functionality that one must demand in a good sim in order to label it as that: a good sim. thats why back then I gave SF two final scores: taken as an action game I gave it a B, taken as a sim I gave it a D-, if i remember correctly. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.