Common New Age Presuppositions and Beliefs

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by martes86

Music in Ladino?? Doesn't look so extinct...

Not at all!

[SUBMAN1]

This thread is way too deep. Must look elsewhere for a proper reply.

-S

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Not at all!

Thanks for that link!

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by joea

And some would say just the Greek Orthodox, who did not introduce certain "innovations" that the Roman church did like the Filoque clause, the pretentsions of the Bishop of Rome etc. :P

And some would argue in the case of the Roman church, as it did not alter the accepted view of early Christendom that Christ was indeed imortal. The argument is circular, and without answer, which is why the schism remains today.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Not at all!

It doesn't work.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by martes86

It doesn't work.

O/T. It's a link to an on-line music shop 'Israel Music'. I love some Israeli artists and know there songs quite well.
Here's the link:
http://www.israel-music.com/browse/music/ladino/
martes86, I bet you can figure out Ladino, just as I can figure out Jiddish (somewhat).

[thanos]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And some would argue in the case of the Roman church, as it did not alter the accepted view of early Christendom that Christ was indeed imortal. The argument is circular, and without answer, which is why the schism remains today.

Huh? Since when does Orthodoxy not accept the immortality of christ? The council of Nicaia decided on the dual nature of christ (and that was in order to counter Aryanism).

From my high school recollections, one of the points of the schism was the divine nature of *Mary*. The *real* issues however were ones of politics and power.

Ok, back to topic for the rest of you now

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Abraham

O/T. It's a link to an on-line music shop 'Israel Music'. I love some Israeli artists and know there songs quite well.
Here's the link:
http://www.israel-music.com/browse/music/ladino/
martes86, I bet you can figure out Ladino, just as I can figure out Jiddish (somewhat).

Wow, certainly I've been able to recognise some of the songs titles (if not all in some disks) and also I understood lots of the songs samples. Didn't changed that much in 500 years.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Mind is filled by enligthened clearness, so throw away the darkness of all your conceptions. FREE YOURSELF FROM EVERYTHING! (Huang-Po)

This sounds like a clip from Conan the Barbarian when he looks into the pool and the chick asks him what he see's and he says..."Infinity"...Embrace the nothingness...what horsepoo. LMAO

The Laws were meant to show sin in it's true light, until the One, in whom the Law is Fufilled came...Now having came,died, and risen from the dead....a way home is established...free of charge...a gift, from the Son of God, Jesus Christ paid in full, in blood.

As any judge will tell you...Ignorance of the law is no excuse from it so dont be too free there Skybird.

[joea]

Originally Posted by thanos

Huh? Since when does Orthodoxy not accept the immortality of christ? The council of Nicaia decided on the dual nature of christ (and that was in order to counter Aryanism).

From my high school recollections, one of the points of the schism was the divine nature of *Mary*. The *real* issues however were ones of politics and power.

Ok, back to topic for the rest of you now

You spell that Arianism, Aryanism is another thread. :rotfl:

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by thanos

From my high school recollections, one of the points of the schism was the divine nature of *Mary*. The *real* issues however were ones of politics and power.

Yes, that is what I had meant: Divine conception vs. mortal conception, hence the divine nature of Christ. The dogma of original sin requires that only such an action would be capable of providing man with the means of redemption. Also, yes, I know that this dogma was not instituted until 8 December, 1854, a long time after the fifth century. None-the-less, the belief was common since the earliest days of the western church. This, of course, remains compatible with the western concept of continual scriptural and dogmatic revelation.

[thanos]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Yes, that is what I had meant: Divine conception vs. mortal conception, hence the divine nature of Christ. The dogma of original sin requires that only such an action would be capable of providing man with the means of redemption. Also, yes, I know that this dogma was not instituted until 8 December, 1854, a long time after the fifth century. None-the-less, the belief was common since the earliest days of the western church. This, of course, remains compatible with the western concept of continual scriptural and dogmatic revelation.

According to the orthodox belief, Christ was crucified and bore his predicament for exactly the original sin (of man, including himself, hence his mortal nature) but he was also redeemed of it via the ressurection, hence his divine nature.

But my theological knowledge is getting rusty because I've been away from high-school for more than a decade now, so I might be wrong somewhere.

[Takeda Shingen]

Your memory is good, Thanos. The only thing that divine conception does for the western church is allow Mary to circumvent the effects of inherited mortality and pass directly into heaven. I say 'only' with a grain of salt, because, as you said earlier, the nature of the Virgin and of Christ's origin is the largest sticking points between the two churches.

Looks like something productive came out of this thread after all. Good save, Joe and Thanos.


*Edited to change 'you're' to 'your'. That is one of my pet peeves about writing, and I can't believe I did that.

[XabbaRus]

This is a great place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon

and follow the links tonnes more stuff

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Iceman

This sounds like a clip from Conan the Barbarian when he looks into the pool and the chick asks him what he see's and he says..."Infinity"...Embrace the nothingness...what horsepoo. LMAO

The Laws were meant to show sin in it's true light, until the One, in whom the Law is Fufilled came...Now having came,died, and risen from the dead....a way home is established...free of charge...a gift, from the Son of God, Jesus Christ paid in full, in blood.

As any judge will tell you...Ignorance of the law is no excuse from it so dont be too free there Skybird.

Hoho, did I hear a blind man describing the colours of the rainbow here, saying "It's black, and dark, and more of both, that's the diversity of colours?" That someone endlessly sticks to theories and old scriptures only is proove and evidence that he has no knowledge or experience of his own - that's why he is depending on surrogates and techniques. And the belief in such surrogates and techniques is called pharisaism, and pharisees are the ones that time and again nailed men that were wiser than themselves on wooden crosses, while praying to their false Gods at the same time. There is two ways to claim one is the keeper of true knowledge: learn from the one who knows more, or kill him and staying in control of earthly power that way. You've made your choice for the latter obviously long time ago, and that will not be forgotten. But there is no court in heaven, you know. there are the consequences that are caused by cause and effect, and the casual connection often is not clear and evident to the intellect. Nevertheless you make your own heaven - or hell and become guard of your own imprisonment. I wonder why. Oh, now I remember, it's because "something is written." Sad to see someone in chains. But hopeless if his chains are open and the door unlocked - but he refuses to step out of his cell. Well, your choice. Feel free to do what you want. If your understanding is limited to what you quote and repeat time and again, you may have no other choice, maybe, and maybe you really have set the best course that is available to you in your situation and under these circumstances. For some it is a short voyage, and for others a longer odyssey. But I tell you - you are always just one fingersnip away from true freedom.

BTW, trying to counter Huang-Po with Conan only shows how helpless you are. You probably even do not know who Huang-Po was, and why he said what he said. But as you indicated yourself: lacking understanding of cause and effect does not protect you from the consequences.

"Das Gericht will nichts von dir. Es nimmt dich auf, wenn du kommst, und es entläßt dich, wenn du gehst." (F. Kafka: Der Prozess) The protagonist of this novel hears what the priest is telling him, but does not understand, and is doomed to finally perish because he lost control over his false former truths and falls into despair over his yearning for safe structures describing his reality - but there are none.

"Alles Weltall ist in dir, Dummkopf, also hör endlich auf zu grübeln. Oder muß ich dir erst den Kopf von den Schultern hacken?" - Slap, slap. Words and deeds by my old (dead) master, who also was my first martial arts teacher. If he would notice how much words I make here because of you, he probably would have hacked me into pieces.