T-34 versus Tiger Discussion

butcher · 12-14-09, 07:38 AM

ISU-152 , Tiger crews were very careful not to miss this selfpropelled gun with its 152 mm because it could penetrate the tiger armor with no problem but anyway the Tiger almost always came out as a winner in combat duels due to its deadly 88 mm gun and their very effective crews

ZeeWolf · 12-14-09, 01:49 PM

Hello butcher,
Your pictures are fantastic. Do you have more?
And of course butcher the Germans and Her allies lost the war,
we all know that.
However (that being a given) the question becomes how they lost?
You see my interest in WW2 has a philosophical component, and that
being: All wars begin with lies.
Demanding the truth first before all else. But this takes courage to
stand against enormous "knee jerk" pressure. I never forget the fact
that Governments want war first then the people are lead in to them,
never the reverse.

Best regards,
ZeeWolf

ArmorEtr · 12-14-09, 03:00 PM

Ahhhh love the ISU-152 pic with that monster gun, one of my favs. I sometimes try and imagine seeing these armored beasts rolling up to my trench. Very scary since most were just armed with a bolt-action rifle way back then.

Although that thing was not exactly ideal for tank duels with the long reload times. Didn't they have to load a powder charge for the shell?

P.S. Is there a JagdTiger there?

butcher · 12-14-09, 03:17 PM

Thanks for the comments guys, just wanted to cover the tanks that are included in the game with a little extra !
The ISU-152 crews didn't use any powder when reloading ,no Jagdtigers here but in the Kubinka tank museum they have all the goodies and even the only remaining Maus super heavy german tank !
I have been there last year but i will take new pics, promise not less than hundred pics, closeups and all that and i will be visiting the tank museum in Israel as well , they have a perfect Stug IV, Pzkw IV etc , the only thing is that all the tanks at display there are in the desert paint scheme !
I will post more pics tomorrow and thanks again for the comments !

difool2 · 12-29-09, 12:03 AM

Looking to spend some post-Christmas funds-I find tank sims rather appealing, so some questions:

Any major bugs unresolved a year after release?

Can you run multiplayer on a LAN? Is MP running smoothly now?

Are there lots of user-made scenarios now?

frinik · 12-29-09, 11:57 PM

Hello Butcher,

I read your post with interest and I liked your pics!

Re the Stug IV at the tank museum in Isreal?I knew they had a Panzer IV which they took from the inept Syrians( talk about giving these clown such a wonderful tank!) in 1967.I also know the Syrians got the PzIV from the French who got them as war booty after 1945.What about the Stug IV did the Israelis capture them from the Syrians as well?

Cheers!

butcher · 12-31-09, 10:30 AM

Hi Frinik , i was wrong, its a Stug III and a PZKW IV AUSF G in tan color , wil take extra pics when i get there , take care and to all you tank freaks out there, a Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year !!!

zachanscom · 07-13-11, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Hello butcher,
Your pictures are fantastic. Do you have more?
And of course butcher the Germans and Her allies lost the war,
we all know that.
However (that being a given) the question becomes how they lost?
You see my interest in WW2 has a philosophical component, and that
being: All wars begin with lies.
Demanding the truth first before all else. But this takes courage to
stand against enormous "knee jerk" pressure. I never forget the fact
that Governments want war first then the people are lead in to them,
never the reverse.

Best regards,
ZeeWolf

excluding things that don't conform to our preconceptions doesn't work, either. confirmation bias is dangerous in historiography, especially. for example, when we're focused more on philosophy rather than facts. philosophy is intangible and subjective. facts can be verified or proven false with evidence and science.

ZeeWolf · 07-13-11, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachanscom

excluding things that don't conform to our preconceptions doesn't work, either. confirmation bias is dangerous in historiography, especially. for example, when we're focused more on philosophy rather than facts. philosophy is intangible and subjective. facts can be verified or proven false with evidence and science.

Your statement: "excluding things that don't conform to our preconceptions doesn't work" is certainly not in the spirit of facts, evidence and science.
However, my philosophical component: that "All wars begin with lies". Is
most firmly based in fact, evidence and science and one more item that the
enlightened tend to ignore as if it dose not exist and that is TRUTH.
[Gk. philosophos = lover of wisdom] and [Christian = lover of truth and Christ].
And one more thing that needs mentioning - It takes far more courage to face the truth then it dose to toy with facts, evidence and science.

ZeeWolf

12-14-09, 01:49 PM	#2
ZeeWolf Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Great NorthWest Posts: 1,724 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 1	Your pictures are fantastic Hello butcher, Your pictures are fantastic. Do you have more? And of course butcher the Germans and Her allies lost the war, we all know that. However (that being a given) the question becomes how they lost? You see my interest in WW2 has a philosophical component, and that being: All wars begin with lies. Demanding the truth first before all else. But this takes courage to stand against enormous "knee jerk" pressure. I never forget the fact that Governments want war first then the people are lead in to them, never the reverse. Best regards, ZeeWolf

12-14-09, 03:17 PM	#4
butcher Seaman Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 34 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the comments guys, just wanted to cover the tanks that are included in the game with a little extra ! The ISU-152 crews didn't use any powder when reloading ,no Jagdtigers here but in the Kubinka tank museum they have all the goodies and even the only remaining Maus super heavy german tank ! I have been there last year but i will take new pics, promise not less than hundred pics, closeups and all that and i will be visiting the tank museum in Israel as well , they have a perfect Stug IV, Pzkw IV etc , the only thing is that all the tanks at display there are in the desert paint scheme ! I will post more pics tomorrow and thanks again for the comments ! Last edited by butcher; 12-14-09 at 03:29 PM.

12-29-09, 11:57 PM	#6
frinik Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 897 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Stug IV in Israel? Hello Butcher, I read your post with interest and I liked your pics! Re the Stug IV at the tank museum in Isreal?I knew they had a Panzer IV which they took from the inept Syrians( talk about giving these clown such a wonderful tank!) in 1967.I also know the Syrians got the PzIV from the French who got them as war booty after 1945.What about the Stug IV did the Israelis capture them from the Syrians as well? Cheers!

12-14-09, 07:38 AM	#1
butcher Seaman Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 34 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	ISU-152 , Tiger crews were very careful not to miss this selfpropelled gun with its 152 mm because it could penetrate the tiger armor with no problem but anyway the Tiger almost always came out as a winner in combat duels due to its deadly 88 mm gun and their very effective crews

12-14-09, 03:00 PM	#3
ArmorEtr Watch Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Carolina, USA Posts: 28 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Ahhhh love the ISU-152 pic with that monster gun, one of my favs. I sometimes try and imagine seeing these armored beasts rolling up to my trench. Very scary since most were just armed with a bolt-action rifle way back then. Although that thing was not exactly ideal for tank duels with the long reload times. Didn't they have to load a powder charge for the shell? P.S. Is there a JagdTiger there?

12-29-09, 12:03 AM	#5
difool2 Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Looking to spend some post-Christmas funds-I find tank sims rather appealing, so some questions: Any major bugs unresolved a year after release? Can you run multiplayer on a LAN? Is MP running smoothly now? Are there lots of user-made scenarios now?

12-31-09, 10:30 AM	#7
butcher Seaman Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 34 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hi Frinik , i was wrong, its a Stug III and a PZKW IV AUSF G in tan color , wil take extra pics when i get there , take care and to all you tank freaks out there, a Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year !!!