US is the no. 1 polluter in the world - Page 2

AVGWarhawk · 12-09-09, 04:40 PM

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You have to compare living styles, and that means on emissions: pollution and ressources consummation per head.

Why? To me pollution is pollution. Life style has nothing to do with it. Pollution is still pollution. If China is 6 part air pollution to 1 part clean air (6:1) and the US is 5 parts air pollution to 1 part clean air (5:1) then China would lead the way as being # 1. Does not matter how many are creating the pollution. If the air quality in the city of 2 is worse that the air quality in a city of 12, the city of 2 is the number one polluter.

12-09-09, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Why? To me pollution is pollution. Life style has nothing to do with it. Pollution is still pollution. If China is 6 part air pollution to 1 part clean air (6:1) and the US is 5 parts air pollution to 1 part clean air (5:1) then China would lead the way as being # 1. Does not matter how many are creating the pollution. If the air quality in the city of 2 is worse that the air quality in a city of 12, the city of 2 is the number one polluter.

On some level I agree with you. But I also think there should be some kind of common economic base from where a country like China should build it's nation and it's industry on. If China was a few years ago and in some ways still is a developing nation then the starting off point is very different then with the US.

However I do agree that China and whole Far-East Asia is problematic in that they have very low environmental standards coupled with a very large population clamouring for higher standards of living which is causing increasing amounts of pollution. But this is also a problem caused partly by western industry that outsources there because of low limitations for pollution etc.

AVGWarhawk · 12-09-09, 04:52 PM

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Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

On some level I agree with you. But I also think there should be some kind of common economic base from where a country like China should build it's nation and it's industry on. If China was a few years ago and in some ways still is a developing nation then the starting off point is very different then with the US.

However I do agree that China and whole Far-East Asia is problematic in that they have very low environmental standards coupled with a very large population clamouring for higher standards of living which is causing increasing amounts of pollution. But this is also a problem caused partly by western industry that outsources there because of low limitations for pollution etc.

Yes, China is a problem. Some of it created by the US by outsourcing. Bush was the worst President when it comes to pollution (air, ocean, all). I can not argue that statement. As you stated, everything ties in with the economic situation or lack their of. I think the really question is not who is the worst offender but who is really attempting to become non-polluters or at the very least, better to the environment. The US automanufactures have been at if for over 25 years. I think they have done a fine job. Our cars are check yearly for emission problems. At least in my state. We might seem to be bullheaded about it but strides are being made to correct the problem.

Ducimus · 12-09-09, 04:41 PM

And yet, our sky's do not look like China's. In my opinion, the proof is in the end result, not in statistics.

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But the US citizen has a way of life that makes him producing 4 times as many emissions as the Chinese citizen, and 20 times as many as an Indian

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Have you been to asia? do you know their way of life? Do you know how many drive? Work in factories? Burn coal to heat their homes? You do know they make up nearly 20% of the worlds population?

Skybird · 12-09-09, 04:51 PM

Sounds like this: we are rich, we live a fat live, and we do not see a reason why we should stop that if the others could as well live with much less than we claim for ourselves. this is even more true since the US also is the greatest consumer of goods and of energy and production ressources, and the greatest producer of waste as well.

Living style is all what it all is about. And that is one of the reasons why climate scepticism is waged like a war with all dirty tricks and cheats possible.

It's a conflict of sheer material egoism and egocentrism. And of course the rich do not like to be told and being fingerpointed at.

In the end the fiugures stand: 21% of global CO2 polution made in america, 20% made in China. Just that China reaches that with almost four times as many people in population size. What makes their living style currently still being far more moderate, even compared to Germany. The average German still produces twice as much CO2 per year than a Chinese.

I was surprised to see France scoring so relatively low. i would have estimated them to rate higher, in the realm of Germany and the UK.

AVGWarhawk · 12-09-09, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sounds like this: we are rich, we live a fat live, and we do not see a reason why we should stop that if the others could as well live with much less than we claim for ourselves. this is even more true since the US also is the greatest consumer of goods and of energy and production ressources, and the greatest producer of waste as well.

Living style is all what it all is about. And that is one of the reasons why climate scepticism is waged like a war with all dirty tricks and cheats possible.

It's a conflict of sheer material egoism and egocentrism. And of course the rich do not like to be told and being fingerpointed at.

In the end the fiugures stand: 21% of global CO2 polution made in america, 20% made in China. Just that China reaches that with almost four times as many people in population size. What makes their living style currently still being far more moderate, even compared to Germany. The average German still produces twice as much CO2 per year than a Chinese.

I was surprised to see France scoring so relatively low. i would have estimated them to rate higher, in the realm of Germany and the UK.

Why yes Skybird....I think of all of that when I drive my Volkswagen Passat 4 cylinder turbo. Guess what, I traded in a Lincoln V8 for this car. Better gas mileage and less emission. I do not know what TV shows you watch but it is not living high on the hog as you believe it to be. Not everyone has a Hummer

Curbside once a week my recycables are in a bin to picked up. So, please with blanket coverage that we all live fat and happy in the US. People are concerned. As far as consumers. Well, if we do not consume it seems the world goes into an economic tailspin. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Ducimus · 12-09-09, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

. But this is also a problem caused partly by western industry that outsources there because of low limitations for pollution etc.

This isn't a nationality problem, if you boil it down, the problem is executive greed. There are many who would NOT like to have their jobs oursourced to some chinese sweatshop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sounds like this: we are rich, we live a fat live, and we do not see a reason why we should stop that if the others could as well live with much less than we claim for ourselves. ........

No, what this all sounds like to me is a little game called, "Pin the tail on the donkey" by some who really dislike the US. In every post, there is an anti US punchline. People hating the US is not new to me. I've been told to my face everything ranging from "Yankee go home" to "No Americans here!". I've been spat at, denied service in resturants, and shunned because of my nationality while overseas. So anti US sentiments do not break my heart. But really, is it neccessary to validate your opinions with statistics? I get it.. really.

Happy Times · 12-16-09, 10:17 AM

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Originally Posted by Skybird

I was surprised to see France scoring so relatively low. i would have estimated them to rate higher, in the realm of Germany and the UK.

Nuclear is the way to go.

12-09-09, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

And yet, our sky's do not look like China's. In my opinion, the proof is in the end result, not in statistics.

Skybird · 12-09-09, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Have you been to asia? do you know their way of life? Do you know how many drive? Work in factories? Burn coal to heat their homes? You do know they make up nearly 20% of the worlds population?

Yeah, damn lies, cheating, betrayal! Zeter und Mordio! Traraaa und Brimborium! It's all a conspiracy! Nobody loves us! It's all antiamericanism! I feel so unhappy! Nobody understands me. Mamaaaa...

It cannot be what should not be.

12-09-09, 04:51 PM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,748 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Sounds like this: we are rich, we live a fat live, and we do not see a reason why we should stop that if the others could as well live with much less than we claim for ourselves. this is even more true since the US also is the greatest consumer of goods and of energy and production ressources, and the greatest producer of waste as well. Living style is all what it all is about. And that is one of the reasons why climate scepticism is waged like a war with all dirty tricks and cheats possible. It's a conflict of sheer material egoism and egocentrism. And of course the rich do not like to be told and being fingerpointed at. In the end the fiugures stand: 21% of global CO2 polution made in america, 20% made in China. Just that China reaches that with almost four times as many people in population size. What makes their living style currently still being far more moderate, even compared to Germany. The average German still produces twice as much CO2 per year than a Chinese. I was surprised to see France scoring so relatively low. i would have estimated them to rate higher, in the realm of Germany and the UK. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.