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03-21-09, 05:17 PM | #91 |
Navy Seal
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Oh yes! It works just the same for the Dick O'Kane technique or vector analysis method. And it has the same limitations there. You are going to absorb some AoB error, which is inconsequential at the right angle Dick O'Kane attack and more and more consequential as the torpedo track angle increases or decreases from 90º.
Personally, at night I don't bother with this. During the day, where there is danger of the target seeing and avoiding, the stern, MOT, bow shot becomes more and more useful.
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03-21-09, 06:30 PM | #92 | |
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03-21-09, 06:35 PM | #93 |
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Setting the AoB would involve going to the AoB dial and resetting. We don't have time for that. What we WILL have to resend is the periscope shoot bearing. You'll re-aim ahead of the target, hold the periscope on that new bearing, click send range/bearing and wait for your new juicy part of the target to cross the wire, at which time you'll send your regards to the Emperor for that part of his ship.
So it's shoot the stern, leapfrog ahead (click), shoot MOT, leapfrog ahead (click), shoot the bow, watch the fireworks.
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04-16-09, 05:59 AM | #94 |
Ace of the Deep
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Those tutorials are still too easy
Since I used the Real Navigation mod in SH3 I was forced to track the movements of my own boat from the start of my map drawings on, too (because the mod removes all of the magically real time updated sub markes from all maps). This makes the whole process quite more interesting. You can't just position yourself along the course line of your target anymore, you have to estimate in which direction you would have to travel for how long to get into the desired position and would also have to recheck your targets range and bearing constantly to become aware of errors in the process soon enough to adjust for them. It was still a ery successful method using the fast 90 tactic. I'm still new to SH4 and got a bit confused by the TDC a bit. When I feed the TDC with range, AoB and speed of the target but the PK is turned off, the gyro angle still gets calculated, right ? The input in SH3 felt a bit more 'manual', or I just need more time getting used to the matter. |
04-16-09, 09:51 AM | #95 | ||
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Glad you like 'em! My aim is to make tutorials so easy my cat can do 'em. Actually my cat outshoots me every time. Your first reaction after putting one of my tutorials into practice should be "I was afraid of THIS?" That's why the advanced targeters rag me a bit about being too basic. I toss out every complication I can, plus irrelevant precision in calculation to arrive at successful manual targeting for the beginner. From that point it's easy to introduce more complexity and better technique.
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Just take your time with the American TDC. It WILL make sense after all the mental short-circuits with the German TDC are broken and new connections can be made. Sounds like you're well on the way to figuring it out. Welcome to fleet boats, where the rules are just a bit different!
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04-16-09, 10:02 AM | #96 | |
Ace of the Deep
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My point didn't was that your tutorial is bad or too easy, I just wanted to find a good starting sentence to introduce my point
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I can still do that, just grab another empty spot on the map instead of where my sub marker is. This came to my mind when I already had sent the last post, oops Then again my first attack failed big time. I just wanted to do it as being used to from SH3 but the torpedo must have sailed happily into nowhere. Must have set some of the settings wrong where the TDC differs from the u-boat's one. I will take a closer look at the tutorials again to figure that out. Skipped some steps when watching the first time because it seemed very similiar to what I had read in the SH3 forums some time ago. |
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04-16-09, 11:16 AM | #97 | |
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I had quit SH3 before I learned manual targeting there because it ate a couple of careers that I had invested a couple of weeks into. I was a bit miffed and then had the opportunity to pick up a copy of SH4 at a good price. It NEVER forgot my career and I hadn't gone back. After talking with aaronblood and gutted I jumped back into a U-Boat long enough to learn Fast-90 and then started searching for ways to overcome the fleet boat's lack of direct link between TDC and periscope. The result was the Dick O'Kane method, a plausibly historical method developed independently of reality. A real fleet boat could have managed an attack exactly like it. It's safe to say that the sugar boats had little choice but to do something very like the Dick O'Kane attack. It does a very good job at highlighting the difference between firing an American and a German torpedo. Dick O'Kane/Fast-90 is the best way to manage the transition between Fleet boat and U-Boat simply because so much of Fast-90 feels familiar to fleet boaters and so much of Dick O'Kane feels familiar to U-Boaters. Similarly, John P Cromwell could be adapted to a Fast-45 U-Boat attack that I might just work up since it's been a while since I wrote a U-Boat tutorial and I love to make those to tweak those people who like to try to paint me as a U-Boat hating fleet boat fanboi. I can see the whole attack in my head right now. It's pretty elegant and no calculating AoB will be necessary. Just doing my part to encourage amity between American and German target killers.:rotfl:
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04-16-09, 12:52 PM | #98 |
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What you call "Fast-45" was addressed in the original "Fast-90" documentation as "Advanced Fast-90" and it applied to any approach angle from 0 to 180.
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04-17-09, 06:03 AM | #99 |
Navy Seal
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Oh, I would do my customary oversimplification hatchet job and reduce it to a "wham bam thank you ma'am" short list of steps without all Wazoo's theory and precision.
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04-17-09, 07:39 AM | #100 | |
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1. Aim scope wire on 90° beam to target TC (regardless of your approach angle) 2. Set AoB at either 90°P or 90°S and lock TDC. Then fire when ready... |
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04-17-09, 03:10 PM | #101 |
Navy Seal
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Oh you've got the instructions, all right. But just like Wazoo's, nobody knows what they are. My aim is that when I get done beginners understand and use the technique. I don't bring any special knowledge to the process at all, and anyone who thinks I do is mistaken. I specialize in instruction and techniques for beginners in manual targeting. What I bring is an ability to communicate to beginners at a level where they understand what to do and understand the process well enough to reason for themselves that my instructions are valid. THEN they can introduce wrinkles of their own, refine the process for more precision, adapt for angles other than 45º and 90º, and whatever else. But that's more advanced stuff. I'm building confidence that they are capable of manual targeting. Only confidence allows you to go forward and perfect your skill.
I am more a translator than a theoretician. OK, I'm a cheerleader too. My stock in trade is language, not the science behind the attack techniques. That's YOUR specialty and without you and several others I would have done NONE of this.
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04-17-09, 07:31 PM | #102 | |
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I'm neither a gifted mathematician (mediocre would even be a stretch) nor someone who delves into the intricate details of attack theory. I just played SH3 and read a few books.
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But you've got a wide following with the DoK stuff and you like to spend time creating movie tutorials and so forth, so sure, you should continue on with doing the sort of things you like to do. Namely, helping newbs sink ships. At the moment, I kinda like tinkering with my maneuvering board, so that's where I'll probably continue to focus my efforts. Last edited by XLjedi; 04-17-09 at 07:42 PM. |
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04-17-09, 09:13 PM | #103 |
Navy Seal
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Just remember, aaronblood, I'm lurking around making stupid mistakes to pounce upon. You have a valuable function in keeping me straight and not misleading any of these newbs!
And I'd be happy to link to anything you've written on any aspect of manual targeting. This thread isn't just for me, it's for anyone who wants to lend a hand. So, I'll follow and I urge others to follow your post on your 10th patrol with U-53 because for somebody your explanation will be the one that makes the difference between getting it or getting frustrated. My goal is to keep very frustrated people playing the game, whether SH4, SH3 or SH4UBM: whether playing in a U-Boat or fleet boat. I have you and gutted to blame for getting me started in this insanity!
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05-09-09, 10:33 AM | #104 |
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First manual sinking....
Using the Dick O'Kane method.... Night Attack from ~900yds submerged... Freighter...
However, it took me four tries with a break to rewatch the DOK video for the 2nd time today... For some reason, my torps kept going about 5 degrees in Front of the target - only thing I can figure is I somehow messed up setting the shooting bearing in the periscope... Well, there was the one time I shot behind the ship because the Exec entered the AOB wrong... Anyways, after rewatching the video and writing things down step by step, I hit with 3 of 4 torps! The one question I have is in the video RR points the 'scope at the target and waits for the 'crew' to identify - this never happened for me, any ideas? I am running TMO, RSRD, Max Optics, Websters Ship Manuvering, Crew Qtrs for TMO, & ROW Sound v9. Update; Well, I seem to still be shooting in front of my target by a few degrees (or .5-1 target ship length) when aiming at the middle of the target. When shooting at a freighter I am using a 10deg lead angle and calulating the shooting bearing like this with target approach from my port 360-10=350deg and like this with target approach from my starboard 360+10=10deg. I then point my periscope down that bearing, click so it is locked, and then send distance/range to the TDC again. Things look OK on the target map, but No Joy ... Last edited by GulfXray; 05-09-09 at 07:26 PM. Reason: update ino.... |
05-12-09, 06:05 AM | #105 |
Navy Seal
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Shawn, if you're missing ahead, you most certainly have the speed estimated too high for some reason. Missing ahead is not easy to do, so it is the easiest to diagnose. Go over how to determine the target speed again.
Identifying by keyboard command is part of Trigger Maru and my TMOkeys mod, where you lock on a target, press shift-i and a handy crewman eventually id's the target. Identifying the target is NOT NECESSARY with the Dick O'Kane procedure, and was only done to make the video more interesting. People enjoy plugging a tanker! Keep at it. You know you're close to making it work. Good shooting so far!
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