RAF Great Escape POW Dies

[Jimbuna]

A Second World War pilot who was involved in the Great Escape has died aged 101, according to an RAF charity.

In 1941, Jack Lyon’s bomber plane was struck by flak near Dusseldorf in Germany, the RAF Benevolent Fund said.

All the crew survived the crash-landing, only to be captured by the Nazis and taken to prisoner of war camps.

Mr Lyon, who was a flight lieutenant, ended up in the Stalag Luft III camp, where he was recruited by other prisoners to carry out surveillance of the compound ahead of the famed 1944 Great Escape breakout.

The plot was uncovered by guards before Mr Lyon, who died on Friday, was able to make his bid for freedom.https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-12/...dies-aged-101/

RIP Sir
~SALUTE~

[Commander Wallace]

A real life hero.


Rest in Peace.

[u crank]

R.I.P. Mr. Lyon.

[Eichhörnchen]

Now he finally escapes these mortal coils

[fumo30]

In theory, when a POW escapes he no longer enjoys the status of a POW and instead is turned again an enemy fighter so being a legal target for use of weapons.


What did naz...err, Germans do with the escapees in case they got on their trails?
Did they open fire at them without hesitation, or were they gentlemen enough to just recapture them and send them back to the camp?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by fumo30

In theory, when a POW escapes he no longer enjoys the status of a POW and instead is turned again an enemy fighter so being a legal target for use of weapons.


What did naz...err, Germans do with the escapees in case they got on their trails?
Did they open fire at them without hesitation, or were they gentlemen enough to just recapture them and send them back to the camp?

I'd suggest watching the movie because iirc they were (approx. 50) taken to a forested area and machine gunned.

Two weeks later the remaining prisoners at Stalag Luft III receive news that 42 of the recaptured escapees had been shot “resisting arrest or making further escape attempts after arrest”. When the list of victims was posted it amounted to 47 names, and a few days later another three were added, bringing the total to 50. Among the dead were 25 Britons, six Canadians, three Australians, two New Zealanders, three South Africans, four Poles, two Norwegians, one Frenchman and a Greek. A further 23 were sent back to various other Nazi prison camps. Only three of the escapees - two Norwegians and a Dutchman - made it home.http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/pr...ape/index.html

[fumo30]

Thanks for the answer.

I got interested about the subject and will look for the movie.


There was also a French general Henri Giraud who succeed escaping from the highly secure German POW prison castle.

[August]

Originally Posted by fumo30

Thanks for the answer.

I got interested about the subject and will look for the movie.


There was also a French general Henri Giraud who succeed escaping from the highly secure German POW prison castle.

There's a thread started by Eichhörnchen that discusses that very POW castle (Colditz) along with the subject of WW2 POWs in general. Very interesting.



http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ghlight=escape

[eddie]

May he rest in peace.

[Eichhörnchen]

Originally Posted by August

There's a thread started by Eichhörnchen that discusses that very POW castle (Colditz) along with the subject of WW2 POWs in general. Very interesting.



http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ghlight=escape

Thanks, August. On the subject of the shooting of escapees, the fate of the 'Great Escapers' has become infamous, although from what I've read this was exceptional; there were many repeat-escapers consigned to camps which became known as "naughty boys" camps:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peo...a8209398.shtml

[Catfish]

I do not quite understand the romantic or heroic side of the prisoners' fates, wherever they were 'interned' or arrested or how they tried to flee, but there is also a lot about it in german reports and novels, showing the other side (which is basically the same). They tried to hold their head up despite the situation, and give an example of hidden or open 'superiority' towards their guards and interrogators, justified or not, and planned a breakout. Almost always.
Musical bands, theatre, yes i heard this was allowed in german PoW camps. I did not read much about such in allied camps, especially not after the war.

May he rest in peace.

[Eichhörnchen]

I can only suggest that most books written about the subject came from men who, as boys, had been 'incarcerated' in Public Schools... with all the parallels that existed with these (illicit pursuits, hiding of contraband, baiting of teachers, temporarily absconding etc) and, as such, found themselves in a situation reminiscent of their much younger days... and so the tales of the doings in places like Colditz have sometimes taken on some of the nostalgic charm of a "Boys Own" adventure.

As officer prisoners they also had a sworn duty to try to escape, so this was the perfect recipe for what followed and, when writing after the war, these escapades were often dismissed (with the mixture of bravado and understatement that characterises these gentlemen) as more in the nature of "japes" and "hi-jinks"

That's not to ignore the sometimes brutal realities, the privations and general insanitary existence a lot of them must have known, but these writers had usually been imprisoned in officers camps, where the Geneva Convention was supposed to afford them less harsh treatment (for example, prisoners were supposed not to be forced into working for their captors)... you'll probably find that life in the 'other ranks' camps was far more unpleasant

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by fumo30

In theory, when a POW escapes he no longer enjoys the status of a POW and instead is turned again an enemy fighter so being a legal target for use of weapons.


What did naz...err, Germans do with the escapees in case they got on their trails?
Did they open fire at them without hesitation, or were they gentlemen enough to just recapture them and send them back to the camp?

You can read the articles of the 1929 Geneva convention here

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/geneva02.asp.

What they were supposed to do?

An escaped POW is subject to recapture and if rested, can be shot. They have to be given a chance to surrender and once taken into custody can't be harmed.

POWs have the right to escape and any attempted escape makes the POW subject to disciplinary punishment. If, during the escape, a POW breaks any of the laws, Judical Punishment may apply.

[August]

Originally Posted by Eichhörnchen

I can only suggest that most books written about the subject came from men who, as boys, had been 'incarcerated' in Public Schools... with all the parallels that existed with these (illicit pursuits, hiding of contraband, baiting of teachers, temporarily absconding etc) and, as such, found themselves in a situation reminiscent of their much younger days... and so the tales of the doings in places like Colditz have sometimes taken on some of the nostalgic charm of a "Boys Own" adventure.

As I recall PR Reid talks about the game of wits aspect of escaping in his book Escape From Colditz. Of course a lot of what they were able to do was because the Germans were willing to play the game too. Hitler had the Stalag Luft III 50 murdered but it's rarity(at least among western nation POWs) was what made it a very big deal.

There were very few such mass escapes from Japanese POW camps (Palawan is the only one I can think of at the moment). This was partly because of the inhospitable jungle on the other side of the wire and because they kept their prisoners weakened from extreme starvation and disease but also because the Japanese would execute everyone from the escapers barracks, whether they had anything to do with it or not.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

RIP. Another of the Greatest Generation has left us.



As for what the Germans would do with POWs who where re-captured after escaping was the prisoner(s) would be returned to the same camp from which they had escaped from, a spell in solitary confinement also known as "The Cooler" and then returned the back into the camp. The execution of the 50 POW's who escaped from Stalag Luft III was a personal order from Hitler to ensure that no more mass escapes would happen.



In POW camps run by the Japanese all POW's where treated as slave labor for use in coal mines, factories, docks, railyards, building airfields and so on. Many died of starvation, lack of even basic medical treatments, torture and in some cases medical experimentation. The Japanese also had a "Kill all order", where in the event the allies where going to land in any place where there where POW's they would be killed and all traces of their existence removed. It was also far more difficult to escape from a camp in mainland Japan just due to the physical differences between the POW's and the Japanese. How ever if one escaped in the Philippines or the Dutch East Indies you had a decent chance of getting away and making contact with friendly forces that where in the area.