Let's Learn some Target Motion Analysis! RANGE RATE!

Sixbreaker · 01-12-17, 05:32 PM

Hi!

Since this TMA manual I read didn't have much pictures; I decided to draw one!

TMA is the meat of Dangerous Waters and I drew this for the new guys who may not understand how TMA works.

I want to emphasize the importance of acknowledging RANGE RATE, as well as other important factors:

SPEED IN
SPEED OUT
SPEED ACROSS

as well as the different Line of Sight scenarios: LEAD, LAG, POINTING, NARROW, etc.

Link for more info: TMA EXPLAINED (FROM SUBCOMMAND)

/

p7p8 · 01-12-17, 07:27 PM

You forgot about enemy speed and course.

Sixbreaker · 01-13-17, 12:20 AM

yep;

isn't just enemy target's SPEED IN and just add it to the 4 kts? that'd be total range rate? I just used my own range rate to point this fact out.

FPSchazly · 01-17-17, 12:54 PM

Basically, yes, it's the same method for the enemy contact. The two speeds along the line of bearing are added together for total closing speed. The method you outlined in the OP is for approaching a stationary target if I've interpreted your figure correctly.

p7p8 · 01-17-17, 08:50 PM

Basically this is wrong even for stationary target. Range Rate should be constant value, but...

In my opinion this is useless because if you want to close to enemy, you can do it using simply intuition methods.

FPSchazly · 01-17-17, 09:03 PM

It would have to be updated consistently, yes. But at a point in time, it's correct. This isn't useless, it's a good thought experiment, and to illustrate components of a vector to those who have never learned vector math.

When can I expect some p7p8 tutorials?

p7p8 · 01-18-17, 12:18 AM

I gave you Chazly some tutorials during last battle

BTW in that battle Skinflute hit by Harpoons first: civilian Tug, later own Harpers Ferry and oil rig. I think he prove that method have "little" defect.

Tutorials are not my strong domain so I don't do it. Also i have problem with my bad english

But I often help others in problems with mission editors etc. Also you have my comments about torpedo evasions under your YT guide.

Problem is when someone give others "bad tutorial" (when he thinks it is good) - which guides players to wrong reaction for sudden danger.
This "math" tutorial is not directly bad. It is bad because it gives feeling: "that math is necessary for professional playing" - which is not true.

If you realy want tutorial from me, here is my replay:

LINK

Im serious - replays are good help to improve skills. Watching without "Show Truth" checked, allow you to learn how to act in various situations.
In that battle (Battle for Oilrig) i made some mistakes:
- wrong identification
- firing missiles for too far targets (in RA 1.40 that range was correct)
After battle I always watched replay (2-3 times) for elimination my mistakes. This is best way of learning

01-12-17, 05:32 PM	#1
Sixbreaker Watch Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 21 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Let's Learn some Target Motion Analysis! RANGE RATE! Hi! Since this TMA manual I read didn't have much pictures; I decided to draw one! TMA is the meat of Dangerous Waters and I drew this for the new guys who may not understand how TMA works. I want to emphasize the importance of acknowledging RANGE RATE, as well as other important factors: SPEED IN SPEED OUT SPEED ACROSS as well as the different Line of Sight scenarios: LEAD, LAG, POINTING, NARROW, etc. Link for more info: TMA EXPLAINED (FROM SUBCOMMAND) /

01-17-17, 12:54 PM	#4
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	Basically, yes, it's the same method for the enemy contact. The two speeds along the line of bearing are added together for total closing speed. The method you outlined in the OP is for approaching a stationary target if I've interpreted your figure correctly. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

01-17-17, 09:03 PM	#6
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	It would have to be updated consistently, yes. But at a point in time, it's correct. This isn't useless, it's a good thought experiment, and to illustrate components of a vector to those who have never learned vector math. When can I expect some p7p8 tutorials? __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

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01-12-17, 07:27 PM	#2
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	You forgot about enemy speed and course.

01-13-17, 12:20 AM	#3
Sixbreaker Watch Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 21 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	yep; isn't just enemy target's SPEED IN and just add it to the 4 kts? that'd be total range rate? I just used my own range rate to point this fact out.

01-17-17, 08:50 PM	#5
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	Basically this is wrong even for stationary target. Range Rate should be constant value, but... In my opinion this is useless because if you want to close to enemy, you can do it using simply intuition methods.

01-18-17, 12:18 AM	#7
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	I gave you Chazly some tutorials during last battle BTW in that battle Skinflute hit by Harpoons first: civilian Tug, later own Harpers Ferry and oil rig. I think he prove that method have "little" defect. Tutorials are not my strong domain so I don't do it. Also i have problem with my bad english But I often help others in problems with mission editors etc. Also you have my comments about torpedo evasions under your YT guide. Problem is when someone give others "bad tutorial" (when he thinks it is good) - which guides players to wrong reaction for sudden danger. This "math" tutorial is not directly bad. It is bad because it gives feeling: "that math is necessary for professional playing" - which is not true. If you realy want tutorial from me, here is my replay: LINK Im serious - replays are good help to improve skills. Watching without "Show Truth" checked, allow you to learn how to act in various situations. In that battle (Battle for Oilrig) i made some mistakes: - wrong identification - firing missiles for too far targets (in RA 1.40 that range was correct) After battle I always watched replay (2-3 times) for elimination my mistakes. This is best way of learning