ASW Aircraft Apr-May43

Eastwa · 12-22-13, 10:52 AM

I brought this up a few weeks ago but I just started a career in Apr43 and crossed the bay of Biscay outwards in Apr and Home again in May and was not attacked once by aircraft, just cruised along at 8 knots on the surface all the way to my patrol area. Does the realism % in the game a factor in determining how many aircraft attack you. ??

I usually run at about 82%.

Cheers
Eastwa

gi_dan2987 · 12-22-13, 01:48 PM

I think the realism has some affect on how detectable you are in general. When you turn realism up, what you're doing is changing values in the code to a degree. I don't know for sure if detection values are changed, but it's a good guess they are.

Also early war will not see the kind of air coverage like late war. I once played a campaign where I did not see one aircraft of any kind until mid-1940, and that was because I was lurking around by Scapa Flow. If you play a mod that gives you the convoy route maps and air coverage zones, you should be able to see if you're in an air patrol area or not. You really should be grateful, as aircraft usually tend to catch me with my pants down as I'm going around the north coast of England to the Rockall Bank.

HW3 · 12-22-13, 05:37 PM

Time compression plays a big factor in whether you are attacked or not. The higher the time compression you use, the less likely you are to be detected and attacked.

Stompbox · 12-22-13, 06:05 PM

I am constantly attacked by aircraft. I run my game at 90%.
I hate aircraft and wish I could just get rid of them. I never battle em and crash dive all the time. I have never been killed by aircraft. I have been bombed and DCd a couple times. I just find em a nuisance. The way they are scripted just makes it even worse. I find that there are so many flights over my exact area to be somewhat a little crazy. It is what it is.

Example: I am cruising around and spot a plane crash dive... Spot a plane crash dive. Spot a plane crash dive. etc. etc. etc.... All these planes are on a bearing to be real close to my area or pile driving over me. Come on now. Really? I hope they have good air traffic controllers.

When I hit 500 miles out from the Jap coast I go under in the day time now.

Running TMO and RSRDC and the aircraft just annoy me. They are never going to kill me. I see 'em way b4 they see me. I never go into shallows in the day time. And If I am In the shallows i get right out b4 light hits. At least to 100 foot depth. If I was patrolling around in shallow water putting my crew at risk I think the crew would take over the boat.

Any way. I have no idea if your realism setting has anything to do with the game as it puts out aircraft on you.

But I do think it is just scripted as in... If your up on the surface in the day you are going to get harassed if you are in a hot spot. I don't know how the guys make the map layers. But i am sore when they put a circle on there as a flight area as a hotspot for planes it will just automatically start sending planes your way for a given date that was assigned to it. I used to make a ton of maps in The Sim IL2 flight game and That is All I did to annoy people. Make triggers and use time as the bottom line.
If you are here at this time period than these events trigger...

So I imagine if you are not seeing planes ... if you restart it and run the same course again you wont see em. Try it out. Just run it at high time compression and do it a couple times. Than do the exact same thing in another year. Im sure you will see a difference.

Good sailing.

RJ

gi_dan2987 · 12-22-13, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompbox

When I hit 500 miles out from the Jap coast I go under in the day time now.

I think there's just a bit of confusion. This is the SH3 forum and I would assume you're talking about SH4.

SH4 is terrible with aircraft spawning. It is almost unrealistic to a point. If you are spotted in a hot zone, you should get swarmed with planes, but to get swarmed in the middle of the ocean for no reason makes no sense and probably didn't happen all too often. It isn't just everyday that entire squadrons of planes just happen to keep running into the same submarine over and over. The Pacific is a vast area. There are places in the Pacific still where if you get stranded you're a goner, plain and simple. This is why I defaulted back to SH3 and that's where I'm going to stay. No more Ubi titles for me, EVER.

U505995 · 12-22-13, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastwa

I brought this up a few weeks ago but I just started a career in Apr43 and crossed the bay of Biscay outwards in Apr and Home again in May and was not attacked once by aircraft, just cruised along at 8 knots on the surface all the way to my patrol area. Does the realism % in the game a factor in determining how many aircraft attack you. ??

I usually run at about 82%.

Cheers
Eastwa

I generally travel out of harbors at 256 tc because it isn't a slow crawl but it still allows aircraft to spawn.

gi_dan2987 · 12-22-13, 10:51 PM

Can somebody explain to me why TC changes so many things yet it's included in the game? What is the optimal TC to run at? I mean, a TC slow enough to not get caught unaware and also to get all the aircraft and what not, but not so fast that you're missing things or being sunk before you know it. Anybody know?

Leandros · 12-23-13, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

Can somebody explain to me why TC changes so many things yet it's included in the game? What is the optimal TC to run at? I mean, a TC slow enough to not get caught unaware and also to get all the aircraft and what not, but not so fast that you're missing things or being sunk before you know it. Anybody know?

Hi, as important as the TC you are travelling at is the adjustment for how the TC shall change according to various events. For example: Should the TC go to 1 or 8 when a radar signal is detected or a ship sighted?

Fred

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 06:19 AM

I've changed some TC values in my .cfg files. Mostly I want it to snap to RT for unidentified and enemy planes and ships. All too often I've stumbled across a DD, my TC has went to 8 without me realizing it, then by the time I hit RT I'm already half sunk. The game should go to RT when any unidentified ship or plane is spotted anyhow.

I like to travel at 1024x, but does this make me miss things I should not be missing? Should I cruise @512x? 256? This has always been a question for me.

What I want to know is how do I change the keyboard commands? I want the Enter button in my keypad to be RT. That way I can hit it as my Oh #$%! button if I have any concerns about why I'm lagging at 1024, etc.

GreyBeard · 12-23-13, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

.........What I want to know is how do I change the keyboard commands?..........

Download SetKeys here: http://www.lsh3.com/v5/tools_en.html Just scroll down and you'll see it. I'm using GWX 3.0 so the enter button is already set to realtime = 1.

Leandros · 12-27-13, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

I've changed some TC values in my .cfg files. Mostly I want it to snap to RT for unidentified and enemy planes and ships. All too often I've stumbled across a DD, my TC has went to 8 without me realizing it, then by the time I hit RT I'm already half sunk. The game should go to RT when any unidentified ship or plane is spotted anyhow.

I believe the SH3 Commander has an adjustment possibility for this - under tools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

What I want to know is how do I change the keyboard commands? I want the Enter button in my keypad to be RT. That way I can hit it as my Oh #$%! button if I have any concerns about why I'm lagging at 1024, etc.

I have made a habit of hitting the observer scope ("O") button as soon as a detection is made.

Fred

sharkbit · 12-23-13, 11:30 AM

I've always disliked how aircraft seem impotent in the game. It has always been "aircraft spotted", crash dive, surface after 15 minutes or so. There is never any surprise.
I've recently been experimenting with a dice roll to randomly simulate the possibility of a surprise attack. When I get the aircraft spotted message, I roll 2 dice and multiply by 10. That is the number of seconds before I can dive. The dice are modified by some factors for year, night, etc.
It makes things a bit more chilling when you're watching a Sunderland coming at you and you're counting down the clock before you can dive.

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 12:43 PM

That's hardcore man! The only way to play! The experience you want to have is decided by YOU and only you.

Ok so I (finally) started a campaign in NYGM3. Much different than GWX3 I must say, but so far I'm really liking it.

There's only one issue I have to bring up. I was tracking this merchant vessel for a good while, probably an hour or so. I spotted him when I was in a favorable position anyways, so I didn't need to track him longer than that. I took range/bearing estimates with the UZO at about 9000m off his starboard bow, and then turned to a heading parallel to track him. At the correct intervals I took my estimates with the UZO until I was satisfied and locked him in at 9 knots.

I also estimated his course to be about 015. Now with this I could spring ahead and get into an attack position. Confident about his speed and heading, and detecting no evasive maneuver, I got into position about 1500m off his course line. Not ideal, but good enough. I did all my final torp preps and setup battle stations. I took another reading through the periscope, and determined him to be on roughly the same course line 015. With that I used my formulas (which I've tested time and again, they're correct), to figure his AOB. He was properly ID'ed as a small merchant. With everything set, AOB and speed pre-factored, now all I had to do was one more range, lock it in, and shoot....and miss. There were no evasive maneuvers that I could tell. I tracked this guy for a long time and no variables changed, even up until the time I took my shot. Frustrated, I surfaced and put him under with my deck gun. Not my cleanest kill, but I still got the end result.

Now to the drawing board... What went wrong? What changed? What variables did I miss/mis-calculate? Up until I took my shot, I confirmed all my parameters and found them to be accurate. Could he have made just a slight course or speed change? Is the stadimeter broken? Anybody have any ideas?

Andrewsdad · 12-23-13, 06:37 PM

Salute, Dan !!!

There are a whole bunch of things that go wrong even when we do everything right !!

First thing that comes to mind is your torps may have run under the target. (I usually watch steam torpedoes on their run with the external camera so if I miss I can learn from it.)
If you have Hsie's mod and are using realistic torpedo performance then there is a very good chance that they were duds. He mimics that by making the torps run too deep.

Is it possible you accidently got your AOB backwards? (starboard/port)? Did you remember to put the TDC back in auto after you inputted the settings?

In real life, I think that most misses were due to errors in the target speed. That is what probably causes us to miss as well.

AD

gi_dan2987 · 12-23-13, 06:47 PM

I'm guessing it wasn't a dud since I didn't get a message saying it was a dud, but who knows. It's possible that a deep run happened, but I was using the T1 early war steam torps, I thought the early electric torps had depth keeping and pistol issues?

I know I didn't get the AOB wrong because I have tried and true formulas to figure that out to an exact number, as long as you correctly estimate enemy true course. I also visually confirmed AOB with the scope.

It was either a speed or course change last minute, or a deep runner, or a dud that didn't get reported. Either way, I sunk him, and now I'm going back to GWX3 because shortly after him I went on to sick a Medium Cargo worth 6,000GRT with one torp on impact, and it did the stock "split in two" thing

All is good though, as recently I've been doing more mod putzing than actual playing, so a complete reinstall of GWX3 is nothing more than a tedious way to spend an evening for me at the moment.

I've played SH3 until the cows have come home. Right now I think I'm just using it as an art easel to test mods and what not. If I screw something up, oh well, that's why I'm diddling around with SH3 and not SH5.

Well, gotta beta test stock SH3 to see if it's corrupted, then onto reinstall of GWX!

12-22-13, 10:52 AM	#1
Eastwa Torpedoman Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 112 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	ASW Aircraft Apr-May43 I brought this up a few weeks ago but I just started a career in Apr43 and crossed the bay of Biscay outwards in Apr and Home again in May and was not attacked once by aircraft, just cruised along at 8 knots on the surface all the way to my patrol area. Does the realism % in the game a factor in determining how many aircraft attack you. ?? I usually run at about 82%. Cheers Eastwa

12-22-13, 05:37 PM	#3
HW3 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gresham Oregon Posts: 6,574 Downloads: 458 Uploads: 0	Time compression plays a big factor in whether you are attacked or not. The higher the time compression you use, the less likely you are to be detected and attacked. __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink...others require our assistance." Nathan Zelk

12-23-13, 11:30 AM	#12
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	I've always disliked how aircraft seem impotent in the game. It has always been "aircraft spotted", crash dive, surface after 15 minutes or so. There is never any surprise. I've recently been experimenting with a dice roll to randomly simulate the possibility of a surprise attack. When I get the aircraft spotted message, I roll 2 dice and multiply by 10. That is the number of seconds before I can dive. The dice are modified by some factors for year, night, etc. It makes things a bit more chilling when you're watching a Sunderland coming at you and you're counting down the clock before you can dive. __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-22-13, 01:48 PM	#2
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I think the realism has some affect on how detectable you are in general. When you turn realism up, what you're doing is changing values in the code to a degree. I don't know for sure if detection values are changed, but it's a good guess they are. Also early war will not see the kind of air coverage like late war. I once played a campaign where I did not see one aircraft of any kind until mid-1940, and that was because I was lurking around by Scapa Flow. If you play a mod that gives you the convoy route maps and air coverage zones, you should be able to see if you're in an air patrol area or not. You really should be grateful, as aircraft usually tend to catch me with my pants down as I'm going around the north coast of England to the Rockall Bank.

12-22-13, 06:05 PM	#4
Stompbox Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I am constantly attacked by aircraft. I run my game at 90%. I hate aircraft and wish I could just get rid of them. I never battle em and crash dive all the time. I have never been killed by aircraft. I have been bombed and DCd a couple times. I just find em a nuisance. The way they are scripted just makes it even worse. I find that there are so many flights over my exact area to be somewhat a little crazy. It is what it is. Example: I am cruising around and spot a plane crash dive... Spot a plane crash dive. Spot a plane crash dive. etc. etc. etc.... All these planes are on a bearing to be real close to my area or pile driving over me. Come on now. Really? I hope they have good air traffic controllers. When I hit 500 miles out from the Jap coast I go under in the day time now. Running TMO and RSRDC and the aircraft just annoy me. They are never going to kill me. I see 'em way b4 they see me. I never go into shallows in the day time. And If I am In the shallows i get right out b4 light hits. At least to 100 foot depth. If I was patrolling around in shallow water putting my crew at risk I think the crew would take over the boat. Any way. I have no idea if your realism setting has anything to do with the game as it puts out aircraft on you. But I do think it is just scripted as in... If your up on the surface in the day you are going to get harassed if you are in a hot spot. I don't know how the guys make the map layers. But i am sore when they put a circle on there as a flight area as a hotspot for planes it will just automatically start sending planes your way for a given date that was assigned to it. I used to make a ton of maps in The Sim IL2 flight game and That is All I did to annoy people. Make triggers and use time as the bottom line. If you are here at this time period than these events trigger... So I imagine if you are not seeing planes ... if you restart it and run the same course again you wont see em. Try it out. Just run it at high time compression and do it a couple times. Than do the exact same thing in another year. Im sure you will see a difference. Good sailing. RJ

12-22-13, 10:51 PM	#7
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Can somebody explain to me why TC changes so many things yet it's included in the game? What is the optimal TC to run at? I mean, a TC slow enough to not get caught unaware and also to get all the aircraft and what not, but not so fast that you're missing things or being sunk before you know it. Anybody know?

12-23-13, 06:19 AM	#9
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I've changed some TC values in my .cfg files. Mostly I want it to snap to RT for unidentified and enemy planes and ships. All too often I've stumbled across a DD, my TC has went to 8 without me realizing it, then by the time I hit RT I'm already half sunk. The game should go to RT when any unidentified ship or plane is spotted anyhow. I like to travel at 1024x, but does this make me miss things I should not be missing? Should I cruise @512x? 256? This has always been a question for me. What I want to know is how do I change the keyboard commands? I want the Enter button in my keypad to be RT. That way I can hit it as my Oh #$%! button if I have any concerns about why I'm lagging at 1024, etc.

12-23-13, 12:43 PM	#13
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	That's hardcore man! The only way to play! The experience you want to have is decided by YOU and only you. Ok so I (finally) started a campaign in NYGM3. Much different than GWX3 I must say, but so far I'm really liking it. There's only one issue I have to bring up. I was tracking this merchant vessel for a good while, probably an hour or so. I spotted him when I was in a favorable position anyways, so I didn't need to track him longer than that. I took range/bearing estimates with the UZO at about 9000m off his starboard bow, and then turned to a heading parallel to track him. At the correct intervals I took my estimates with the UZO until I was satisfied and locked him in at 9 knots. I also estimated his course to be about 015. Now with this I could spring ahead and get into an attack position. Confident about his speed and heading, and detecting no evasive maneuver, I got into position about 1500m off his course line. Not ideal, but good enough. I did all my final torp preps and setup battle stations. I took another reading through the periscope, and determined him to be on roughly the same course line 015. With that I used my formulas (which I've tested time and again, they're correct), to figure his AOB. He was properly ID'ed as a small merchant. With everything set, AOB and speed pre-factored, now all I had to do was one more range, lock it in, and shoot....and miss. There were no evasive maneuvers that I could tell. I tracked this guy for a long time and no variables changed, even up until the time I took my shot. Frustrated, I surfaced and put him under with my deck gun. Not my cleanest kill, but I still got the end result. Now to the drawing board... What went wrong? What changed? What variables did I miss/mis-calculate? Up until I took my shot, I confirmed all my parameters and found them to be accurate. Could he have made just a slight course or speed change? Is the stadimeter broken? Anybody have any ideas?

12-23-13, 06:37 PM	#14
Andrewsdad Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 130 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Salute, Dan !!! There are a whole bunch of things that go wrong even when we do everything right !! First thing that comes to mind is your torps may have run under the target. (I usually watch steam torpedoes on their run with the external camera so if I miss I can learn from it.) If you have Hsie's mod and are using realistic torpedo performance then there is a very good chance that they were duds. He mimics that by making the torps run too deep. Is it possible you accidently got your AOB backwards? (starboard/port)? Did you remember to put the TDC back in auto after you inputted the settings? In real life, I think that most misses were due to errors in the target speed. That is what probably causes us to miss as well. AD

12-23-13, 06:47 PM	#15
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I'm guessing it wasn't a dud since I didn't get a message saying it was a dud, but who knows. It's possible that a deep run happened, but I was using the T1 early war steam torps, I thought the early electric torps had depth keeping and pistol issues? I know I didn't get the AOB wrong because I have tried and true formulas to figure that out to an exact number, as long as you correctly estimate enemy true course. I also visually confirmed AOB with the scope. It was either a speed or course change last minute, or a deep runner, or a dud that didn't get reported. Either way, I sunk him, and now I'm going back to GWX3 because shortly after him I went on to sick a Medium Cargo worth 6,000GRT with one torp on impact, and it did the stock "split in two" thing All is good though, as recently I've been doing more mod putzing than actual playing, so a complete reinstall of GWX3 is nothing more than a tedious way to spend an evening for me at the moment. I've played SH3 until the cows have come home. Right now I think I'm just using it as an art easel to test mods and what not. If I screw something up, oh well, that's why I'm diddling around with SH3 and not SH5. Well, gotta beta test stock SH3 to see if it's corrupted, then onto reinstall of GWX!