Can I sink a hospital ship and sleep at night?

[applesthecat]

Okay, I have been waiting for days for something to come along. Days and days off the coast of Ireland and nothing. Then, out of the darkness, my watch officer tells me there is a hospital ship coming. Just my luck. Strangely, no sound contact. (thanks to automatic identification, otherwise I would have sunk it)

Now, I know we are penalized for sinking a hospital ship as it is against the rules. But I have two questions:

1) considering the ship is coming from America and going to England, it would not have any wounded on board. It should be empty except for doctors and nurses. Legal issues aside, what are the ethical arguments for sinking it vs. not sinking it, considering that wounded soldiers are not present and it is, after all, an asset for fighting a war in which winner takes all.

2) Am I a bad person for wanting to sink a hospital ship in a computer Or do I need to get out more?





I decided to fire my flak guns, if nothing else, just to see what would happen. Much to my surprise, she reacted and shone her spot lights in my direction. See below



I decided to let her go. Here she is sailing off due to my magnanimity.

[SubHunter88]

In the game, I personally would have wasted that sucker.... I mean it's just to easy :P and after all letting it complete its mission means medicine and doctors helping the enemy = more troops droping on our coast at D DAY


IRL U-boats did often break international laws of war; rather at the will of the comander or by order in many cases we will never know since these ships an thier radio logs ended up at the botom of the atlantic. At any rate my tactical sence would say to me that if in a real war, facing an iminent war on our home soil, I would employ any and all means to hinder the enemy regardless of international conventions. "Survival of the fittest"

[Castout]

I would sink her and to avoid the point penalty I would atb tab the game and end it through task manager

[BillCar]

In GWX (I believe), you can sink her and not sleep just at night, but forever and ever and ever!

Firing squads can make you really sleepy like that. It's pretty much like drinking an entire bottle of NyQuil, except the NyQuil is being shot into you and it's also a bullet.

[Apache312]

Kaleuns,

During this career, I have let 2 Hospital ships go by. We are not animals, we are gentlemen. I am an American in a German U-boat (which beckons me to be evil), but I also know that during WW2, the sub officers and the Luftwaffe officers were humane. Even Rommel showed humanity was more important than getting an easy kill. Officers were not all buying into Nazism, so we too can afford to be humane....after all, we are Kaleuns.

/S

Apache312

[KL-alfman]

right words, Apache!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by applesthecat

1) considering the ship is coming from America and going to England, it would not have any wounded on board. It should be empty except for doctors and nurses.

So you don't want to kill soldiers who are already wounded, but killing non-combatants whose sole duty is to save lives is okay?

Legal issues aside, what are the ethical arguments for sinking it vs. not sinking it, considering that wounded soldiers are not present and it is, after all, an asset for fighting a war in which winner takes all.

You don't know there are no soldiers on board, and I stand beside my above argument.

Am I a bad person for wanting to sink a hospital ship in a computer?

No, but you ovbiously are concerned enought to try to justify it in your own mind.

Besides, it will cost you ten times the normal renown (I think - it may be more).

[KL-alfman]

nobody wants to judge you or your actions, applesthecat.
but you questioned what the community thinks so there might be different opinions.
if someone says it's a matter of honour not to sink hospital ships one states only his point of view.
if you like this tonnage do it! you are not killing real people.
but pls be aware that some others won't because they think it wouldn't be right. even in hardest battles.

and I might add:
not all of the u-boat commanders had high standards of morale and honour all the time.

so it's just up to you.

[applesthecat]

Sailor Steve, I don't know why you get your panties into a twist. This was a lighthearted thread about a sinking a virtual ship in a video game. You and Apache seemed to have totally missed that. Let's draw back from our virtual world for a moment and remember sinking virtual ships is fun. Certainly no one can argue that killing or destroying things in a computer game is a reflection of values in real life. Some people take things so seriously when it is totally inappropriate.

And yes, there is a difference between sinking a ship full of wounded soldiers, and sinking one without if you really want to go there.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by applesthecat

Sailor Steve, I don't know why you get your panties into a twist. This was a lighthearted thread about a sinking a virtual ship in a video game. You and Apache seemed to have totally missed that. Let's draw back from our virtual world for a moment and remember sinking virtual ships is fun. Certainly no one can argue that killing or destroying things in a computer game is a reflection of values in real life. Some people take things so seriously when it is totally inappropriate.

And yes, there is a difference between sinking a ship full of wounded soldiers, and sinking one without if you really want to go there.

My panties in a twist?


Did you even read the last line of my post? Maybe I need thirty-two smilies to put it into perspective (unfortunately you can only do twelve at a time).

My comments were directed at your comment, and I was speaking in character to your character.

And yes, the only thing that really matters here is that if you sink the hospital ship you will lose a huge amoung of renown. I can tell you how to change that if you like.

[sharkbit]

The red crosses painted on the side make perfect aiming points.

Never had the guts to pull the trigger though.....sail on my friends.

In GWX sinking a hospital ship will end your career and get you shot.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155686

Sailor Steve points out one of the great ethical dilemmas of warfare, if it is considered correct to kill one of the enemy, why is it not correct to kill them all?

If you cannot kill them all, how many can you kill? Who is qualified to quantify when enough is enough?

If you can legally kill the bomb-dropper, why not the bomb maker?

If one can shell a first aid post, as is statistically possible during any indirect fire program, sinking a hosptial ship differs only in scale and probability.

How does laying a mine that sinks a hospital ship differ from torpedoing one?

No ethical judgements are intended here, once the decision has been made to use lethal force to impose a political agenda it is very easy to have violence escalate and societal mores fall off the rails. In WW2 an errant 500 pound bomb that killed non-combattents was called a miss but in our enlightened 21st Century some would have the same thing today a war crime akin to the Holocaust.

That is why wars are better avoided than fought but if one needs to be fought, they are better won than lost. The winners get to decide when any particular action is "correct" or not. That may be unacceptable to some but it's the reality of war and politics since the dawn of time.

Answers to the above and other questions are entirely subjective, all any soldier/sailor/airman can do is make the best decision they can at the time and hope that those who presume to judge their actions can put it into the context of the event.

<Climbs off soap box while donning Nomex suit and body armour>

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

In GWX sinking a hospital ship will end your career and get you shot.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155686

Sailor Steve points out one of the great ethical dilemmas of warfare, if it is considered correct to kill one of the enemy, why is it not correct to kill them all?

If you cannot kill them all, how many can you kill? Who is qualified to quantify when enough is enough?

If you can legally kill the bomb-dropper, why not the bomb maker?

If one can shell a first aid post, as is statistically possible during any indirect fire program, sinking a hosptial ship differs only in scale and probability.

How does laying a mine that sinks a hospital ship differ from torpedoing one?

No ethical judgements are intended here, once the decision has been made to use lethal force to impose a political agenda it is very easy to have violence escalate and societal mores fall off the rails. In WW2 an errant 500 pound bomb that killed non-combattents was called a miss but in our enlightened 21st Century some would have the same thing today a war crime akin to the Holocaust.

That is why wars are better avoided than fought but if one needs to be fought, they are better won than lost. The winners get to decide when any particular action is "correct" or not. That may be unacceptable to some but it's the reality of war and politics since the dawn of time.

Answers to the above and other questions are entirely subjective, all any soldier/sailor/airman can do is make the best decision they can at the time and hope that those who presume to judge their actions can put it into the context of the event.

<Climbs off soap box while donning Nomex suit and body armour>

After reading your link I, had to go check it out.

Late 1940 in BF grid area.

Sunk a hospital ship. Got big renown hit. That's it.

Play GWX3, SH3C 3.2 100% DiD

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

After reading your link I, had to go check it out.

Late 1940 in BF grid area.

Sunk a hospital ship. Got big renown hit. That's it.

Play GWX3, SH3C 3.2 100% DiD

That is correct....no career ending, simply a wack load of renown.

[PappyCain]

I'd have to give them a pass. Why? Little AI nurses have a special place in my heart, as do the AI wounded who are in enough pain and suffering, not to mention the AI sailors on my boat who look up to me and my leadership!