targeting: what am i likely doing wrong?

[old1]

I *think* I'm up to speed on all the concepts of targeting (playing 100% realism with RFB+RSRD), and in fact, I've sunk some amount of merchant shipping, so I'm doing something *sorta* right. I've watched tutorial videos and read a lot of online stuff, so I should have a basic idea of what's up by now.

But the following happens to me with annoying frequency. The last time was like this: I tracked a large-ish (~7000 ton) merchant boat going 10 knots. I know he's going 10 knots, because (a) I paralleled him for half an hour, and (b) on getting close, I measured his distance over 3 minutes. I'm about 98% sure I've nailed his speed. I establish a track on the TDC about 4000 yards out (measure AoB, etc) and refine it a little as he gets closer. The track seems to be good: he's always right where the TDC predicts and the AoB in the TDC seems good. I launch at about 1000 yards, three torps, with a +2/0/-2 spread (I'm trying to avoid a 90deg impact angle of course). All three torps pass in front of him by about half a boat length. Ack!

By this time he's perpendicular to me on a 0deg relative bearing around 700 yards out, so I quickly reset AoB to 90deg and launch the other three tubes. He still has apparently not detected me. A bit of a stern chase now, but once again all three pass in front of him by around 1/3 or 1/2 a boat. Grrr!!

It makes sense if I'd got his speed wrong, but I'm pretty dang sure I didn't. Anyway, say I missed by 2 knots - that's only 100 feet difference or so in his position, and he's way longer than that. I'm also pretty sure he didn't detect me: he didn't manoeuvre at all, and I hardly had the scope up at all inside 2K yards - maybe 3 or 4 seconds total.

I had a similar issue earlier: I found a large modern composite, similar scenario to the above except that one managed to hit him *right* at his bow. The other two missed.

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Range estimation maybe? But inside 1500 yards, the stadiometer is agreeing with the sonar range really closely - within yards. And as I said, I'm pretty sure I nailed his speed too. Which leaves AoB, but that seemed OK and anyway shouldn't be super critical once it's set inside 1500 yards as long as the TDC track is good, as it appeared to be.

I just can't figure out why I'm missing from such close range. I have enough problems hitting stuff inside 1000 yards that I can't even fathom needing the slow speed/long range setting on the torpedoes. My chance of a hit from over 2K yards is probably around zero.

*Edit* A bit of other data I forgot to post: If I recall right, the gyro angle was something like (roughy) 30 deg. I was aligned perpendicular with the target course, and he'd pass about 680 yards from me, and I'm using the fast torpedo setting.

[magic452]

Are you playing stock or mods, 1.4 or 1.5????


Magic

[Rockin Robbins]

Magic has it right. We need to know what manner of beast you are playing and we can figure it out.

[gutted]

that's strange.. most people having problems tend to have the torpedoes missing behind the target.

usually due to not opening the tubes beforehand and/or not geting an updated range/bearing immediately before firing.

[gutted]

i tend to use metric but 680 yards does seem abit close for a 30 degree gyro angle. that could be your problem right there. but that also begs the question of... why are you firing with a 30 degree gyro angle to begin with if you have the time to wait for a 5 or 10 degree gyro? the more gyro the less accurate.

maybe someone else could chime in, but whats the inital torpedo run (in yards) before the torpedo makes its turn?


also... a +2/0/-2 spread is abit wide imo. i rarely go over +/- 1 degree. usually its +/- .5 degree.

but thats just my two cents.

[magic452]

Gutted that is what makes this so strange a +2/0/-2 at 1000 yards all going in front?????? and than 3 more at 700 doing the same thing.

He seems pretty sure of the target speed and that is about the only thing I can think of.

the straight run is about 4 to 500 yards I think? Edit that seems to be more like 2 to 300 yards.

Magic

[old1]

Sergei and Gutted - thanks, this is getting rather suspicious. I'm using RFB 1.5, not 1.52, because I had some CTD issues with 1.52 while 1.5 was quite solid. I wonder if there's a difference there. I've never installed TMO or anything besides those two mods (RFB+RSRDC), and I only installed it several days ago.

This info that Sergei found is particularly interesting:

In order to reduce confusion while remaining true to the dat apresented in the ONI manuals, the following reference points are used for each class of ship....

Because if that's how RFB 1.5 is behaving (no matter what red bars I see), then it would totally explain my misses in front on merchant ships. I'll investigate that this weekend and report back.

TexanInSoFL: The way I've been setting AoB is as follows: I plot the target position and track. Then on the map, I use the angle measuring tool to measure the angle between two vectors: (a) my boat to the target and (2) target along his track. At long ranges it's often a small angle, like 5 or 10 degrees, so I refine it as the target passes inside 2K yards or so. I manually input this number to the TDC. So far it seems to produce reasonable results, but then again, I do miss a lot for *some* reason...

[gutted]

if you know the targets course.. setting AOB is trivial.

just set the AOB dial to what it looks like at that scope bearing, and send it. then look at where the 0 on the target's "inner" dial is pointing at on the outer dial. it should be pointing at the target's course. (note: you need to send atleat one range/bearing before mucking with it's AOB)

so say you know the target is on a true course of 200 degrees. when you set the AOB the 0 on the inner dial should be pointing at 20 on the outer dial. if it's not, then adjust the AOB slightly and send it again until it's pointing at 20.

later on when the taret is closer, you may get alittle "AOB" drift when sending a new bearing/range. just adjust the AOB again until it's pointing at 20. if after multiple range/bearing readings (over a period of time) the AOB does not drift, you proably have his true course set correctly.

hope that made sense.

[magic452]

Thanks Gutted that is a neat trick I've never though of before. Will save a lot of guess work.

Magic

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, first of all the presence of the red lines from the Ship Centered Accuracy Fix shows that there is some degree of mod soup going on here. And RFB had a problem causing all torpedoes to miss at one time during the 1.5 version. That's a LukeFF question.

If RFB 1.52 is crashing, I'd say a game reinstall is necessary. Check out the stickied thread on that and get yourself a certified clean install going. Then try 1.52. I'll bet my bippy it works perfectly.

As far as targeting, everything you do is pretty bullet proof. The observation on the double-clicking send buttons is interesting, but my testing shows it won't make any difference to the torpedoes. The single click can cause the TDC output dials on the left side of the screen to lie to you about target AoB and torpedo gyro angle but the complete lack of any reports of misses due to single clicking points to an eye candy issue on the output dial.

If you pause the Dick O'Kane video right after I click the send button for the AoB you can clearly see that the output dial shows the wrong AoB until I click the second time. Evidence shows that although the dial shows wrong it lies.

I think Luke has the answer to your problem, but that you'll fix it with reinstall and RFB 1.52. That will remove the Ship Centered Accuracy Fix and put you back to using mastheads for range. All other things being equal the accuracy of your stadimeter range finding is directly proportional to the height of whatever target feature you're utilizing. That's why mastheads are best if they can be seen clearly enough. They are about twice as accurate as a cabin top or deck height.

Capn Scurvy has also corrected the database and that's why SCAF sometimes comes up with a better range than the stock game. It is astronomically better than reality however, and is the equivalent of equipping your World War II sub with Star Trek Enterprise sensors. Scurvy put an inhuman amount of work into the thing, it works magnificently, but there's not a speck of realism to be found there. If I get the Enterprise sensor array I want the photon torpedoes that come with it. Hey, I made those.

[sergei]

Just had another thought. Are you sure you are using the correct version of RSRD?

I had a quick look at the two versions of RSRD.
The RFB version has ship silhouette files containing no red line.
Guess what? The TMO version has silhouettes containing the red line.

Double check which version of RSRD you are running.
I'm putting money on this being the cause of your problem.