DW is showing its age. It's rearing its ugly graphics.

[Castout]

Been quite some time since I played DW the last time.
DW is showing its age now on my widescreen monitor
If it only supported widescreen resolution at high resolution it could breathe some more life into it even with 16 bit graphics.

....sad Sonalysts has decided to jump the ship on games...
now they are responsible for making the younger gamer generation losing some IQ points by not presenting alternative to repetitive mind numbing shooter and simplistic RTS . . .

Anyway I just feel l need to vent this feeling....I feel we need a 'new DW'. There are only few games which bring me fond memories playing them and SC and DW were one of them. Whenever I feel alone in my campus dorm especially at fridays or weekends I would just fire up SC even when I actually wasn't really playing it just lying on my bed listening to the in game music thinking to myself I'm not alone my crews are with me lol. Oh the good old days. Love the in game music. I was a broke student but happy now Im broke and unhappy lol. With no near probability of a new game from Sonalysts....

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Castout

....sad Sonalysts has decided to jump the ship on games...
now they are responsible for making the younger gamer generation losing some IQ points by not presenting alternative to repetitive mind numbing shooter and simplistic RTS . . .

No, you cannot blame Sonalysts, they made four outstanding modern naval sims. They did not sell enough copies to warrant further game development. That's our fault as customers.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

No, you cannot blame Sonalysts, they made four outstanding modern naval sims. They did not sell enough copies to warrant further game development. That's our fault as customers.

Yes and no. Yes the game was a commercial failure but not because of us who bought it but because the "brainwashed masses" just didn't get it.
Which brings me to the second point, when you're going to sell something to someone make sure you give him what he wants (at least in part). Bringing a game with a 10 years old graphics engine was not a good decision. Say what you want, but the first thing to hook people to games is "eye candy".
Once you have them on the hook, you can go on saying how realisitic the simulator is etc, etc, etc... but until that point you have got to do everything in your power to excite new players.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Yes and no. Yes the game was a commercial failure but not because of us who bought it but because the "brainwashed masses" just didn't get it.
Which brings me to the second point, when you're going to sell something to someone make sure you give him what he wants (at least in part). Bringing a game with a 10 years old graphics engine was not a good decision. Say what you want, but the first thing to hook people to games is "eye candy".
Once you have them on the hook, you can go on saying how realisitic the simulator is etc, etc, etc... but until that point you have got to do everything in your power to excite new players.

These are both good points, but they're in opposition to each other. If you use graphics as a hook, then the people you bring in are exactly the people who just don't get it. And then you get even more reviews like the one we got on Attack of the Show or whatever the hell that was.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

These are both good points, but they're in opposition to each other. If you use graphics as a hook, then the people you bring in are exactly the people who just don't get it. And then you get even more reviews like the one we got on Attack of the Show or whatever the hell that was.

No no they are not in opposition. You have to think in terms of a "school analogy". Kids are naturally curious beings, but many times its difficult to get their attention. So what do you do ? You try to get them excited about something that sparks their curiosity. Now that doesn't mean that every kid will stay and pay attention, but many will.
Gamers are not idiots, even those that like to play fps or rts or game genres that typically have nothing to do with military simulations. Many don't know wether they will like a game such as Falcon 4 or DW until they have learned about it or try it out. And it is in this phase that you have to capture their attention. Sure many will say I don't like it, but some will say I didn't know this genre but it looks iteresting. I'll give it a try. Publishers, even niche publishers have nothing to loose to hook these players, and everything to gain. But you have got to get them to at least have a passing look on your game, and that cost is graphics.

[Castout]

It's sad that most people do not want to play games that require them to learn.

They just want to jump right in to the game.

I mean games that let you jump right in usually don't offer much that's why you can just jump right in while games that require you to learn usually offers more strategic or tactical depth or both that simpler games don't offer to its players.

I like DW and SC very much and I don't get it why the masses don't.

@Goldorak I just knew it from you DW could support 1600x resolution.. I've been playign with 1024x800 resolution and tyhat's why it's so jaggy.

[Sea Demon]

they made four outstanding modern naval sims. They did not sell enough copies to warrant further game development. That's our fault as customers.

Yes. Sonalyst's games have been very enjoyable. But how is it "our" fault? Where did we go wrong? Unfortunately, I have a hard time assigning blame to anybody. I did see Sonalysts take some steps to better their chances to make the game profitable with the first publishing effort (Battlefront). They tried to offer customers incentives to buy with the hopes of added playables as well. I think they were also hoping each of us would help "sell" the game to other interested parties such as friends and associates. Too bad it didn't work out like they wanted it too.

[smithcorp]

I saw this thread over at SimHQ ages ago and wondered if anything had come of it. I don't mind the graphics (they don't turn me off the game - how good do the graphics of a sonar screen need to be?) for DW but I would be interested in getting it to fit better on by 1400x900 LCD monitor.

Does anyone know if this potential workaround/toolkit would work with DW?

Thread here: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post2646240

[Castout]

I can tell you that that workaround didn't work for SH3 for me

[smithcorp]

And I've since confirmed it didn't work for DW either. Pity.

[Fleet Command CC]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

No, you cannot blame Sonalysts, they made four outstanding modern naval sims. They did not sell enough copies to warrant further game development. That's our fault as customers.

Yep I agree, well said Neal Stevens.

Would be nice if Sonalysts made a new Fleet Command that would be cool.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Fleet Command CC

Yep I agree, well said Neal Stevens.

Would be nice if Sonalysts made a new Fleet Command that would be cool.

Yeah whatever, its always the customers fault nowadays isn't it ?
SCS didn't understand the market it was catering to, either die hard naval enthusiasts or the more general market.
It developed the sim based on the former premise and marketed it according to the later premise. Their second strategic error was not recognising what other sims were out there and why people liked them.
Silent Hunter 3 was not more easy than DW, in fact played with all the realism settings to maximum it was just as difficult. Manual tma, plotting solutions etc... But it captured a large part of the market (die hard fans and new comers) because of a really nice graphics engine. Ubisoft invested in SH3 and it payed off, SCS didn't invest as much as they should in DW and it showed.
Is it a wonder than the game hadn't sold as they had estimated ?

[Nexus7]

About the success of the SH series: don't underestimate the faschion (err... fashination) that WW2 itself brings to the people (still today)

DW doesn't have this trigger to customers.

[Nexus7]

About the Graphics engine. I am one of those that don't care a darn about graphics in a sub simulator. For me graphics come far behind in the list of fun factors.

Molon Labe is very right in saying that hot graphics would trigger exactly the wrong people, rough / spartan graphics instead will attract the right people, as they are an hint for care for the game mechanics (the juice, and not the superficial, visible things).

My best moments with SC or DW:
- multiplayer battles where you start to think you are able to guess your opponent's next move ! (this can really happen)
- outsmart your human opponent
- successful tactical decisions (better than your enemy)
- the thrill and the stress of the PING PING when you have to prepare for evasion and at the same prepare a counter attack
- organize the efforts of a multicrew platform for the objective and have everyone doing his part with competence and enthusiasm

just to name a few...

But to have the best experience, you have to pass the obstacle consisting in learning the (difficult) game mechanics. Me myself, with SC, at the begin I was about to give it up. Just after several attempts i started learning the basics anfd enjoing the game... at the beginning it was rather frustrating (am i so dumb or does the game sux? )

As for graphical catcher, I think there's nothing best than a picture of the Broad Band sonar with some contacts fading, or some fire control station (i.e. of the Akula), that shows the complexity and the level of detail (again, not graphical detail)

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

About the success of the SH series: don't underestimate the faschion that WW2 itself brings to the people (still today)

DW doesn't have this trigger to customers.

It doesn't make sense, years ago cold war sims sold very well.
Sierra Fast Attack for instance has 2d stations (in svga resolution !!!!) that are more "real" than what we get in DW.
Even Silent Hunter I had 2d stations that are more "real" than DW's.
Really there is no hiding, DW was first and foremost a technology demonstrator for the US Navy.
It was never developed as a game, and therefore never received the attention to detail it deserved to be marketed as a game for the general video game player.
Dont' think I hate DW, in fact I like it a lot, even moreso with RA or Alfa Tau but you must realise that what we have is basically an unfished game.