The biggest Liar?

[BasilY]

I did some reading on uboat.net recently, and found a number of captains grossly over-estimates the number and/or tonnage of the ships sunk.

Here is one;
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/3388.html

"On 10 Dec, 1944, U-1202 reported in a radio telegram the sinking of four ships totalling 26000 tons from a convoy.
In fact, only the unescorted Dan Beard (Master William Robert Wilson) was hit at 13.55 hours by one torpedo in rough seas off Strumble Head, North Wales."

It's kinda hard to mistaken a single unescorted merchant ship for a convoy...

Uboat.net only list confirmed sinkings. Which make me curious:

Who claimed the most tonnage sunk? (Is it Kreshmer?)
Who claimed the most number of ships sunk?

AND

Who's the biggest liar? (claim a lot more than actual sinking).

[Sailor Steve]

You've been doing the reading. You tell us!

Seriously, though, Blair in his American submarine book talks about the problems involved. A lot of the claims were exagerrated simply because the ID books were wrong, or a lot of ships looked like a lot of other ships, or the claimed ship didn't actually sink.

In most cases it wasn't lying so much as not knowing for sure what they were claiming. Still, I'd be curious to see what you find out.

[Murr44]

From what I've read here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/annemar...ell/can4a.html Joachim Schepke had a tendency to overestimate his tonnage. According to Lawrence Paterson, Albrecht Brandi also did this.

[Dread Knot]

You could also blame some of these discrepancies on Reichsfurher Goebbels. The German Propaganda Ministry had no compunction with pushing dubious claims. That's why the Ark Royal was sunk several times in her career before she really was.

[McHibbins]

Originally Posted by Murr44

From what I've read here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/annemar...ell/can4a.html Joachim Schepke had a tendency to overestimate his tonnage. According to Lawrence Paterson, Albrecht Brandi also did this.

Schepkes tendency to overestimate was well known as "Schepke-Tonnage" between the Cmdrs during WWII.

[bgey]

[quote=McHibbinsSchepkes tendency to overestimate was well known as "Schepke-Tonnage" between the Cmdrs during WWII.[/quote]

So, it's safe to say the regarded his reports rather Schepketical? (could not resist...)

Benny

[nikbear]

Have to remember that alot of the time Kaleuns didn't stick around to confirm kills,you dived into the cellar or you didn't live to tell anything at all,from alot of the books I've read,alot of kills claimed where when crews heard an eel explode at the end of its run and it was unsafe to go to periscope depth to check,it was just assumed that the eels had hit they're markIf the U-boat surfaced later and saw oil on the surface and debris it could be rightly assumed that the ship went down,even when it had managed to limp off and keep up with the convoythere are a few stories of ships being hit and carrying on and being sunk later with two different U-boats claming the kill!in the end,in the heat of battle,accurate record keeping wasn't a top priority,and as someone rightly mentioned,propaganda was a very effective weapon

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by bgey

So, it's safe to say the regarded his reports rather Schepketical? (could not resist...)

Benny

Excellent!:rotfl:

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A lot of the claims were exagerrated simply because the ID books were wrong, or a lot of ships looked like a lot of other ships, or the claimed ship didn't actually sink.

In most cases it wasn't lying so much as not knowing for sure what they were claiming. Still, I'd be curious to see what you find out.

Exactly!

Fighter pilots over claimed as well. Not suprising considering how crazy mass dog fights must have been. Before gun cameras I don't know how any of them kept track of what was going on.

[BasilY]

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/3388.html

"On 10 Dec, 1944, U-1202 reported in a radio telegram the sinking of four ships totalling 26000 tons from a convoy.
In fact, only the unescorted Dan Beard (Master William Robert Wilson) was hit at 13.55 hours by one torpedo in rough seas off Strumble Head, North Wales."

It's kinda hard to mistaken a single unescorted merchant ship for a convoy...

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl:

I did say most, not all...

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by BasilY

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/3388.html

"On 10 Dec, 1944, U-1202 reported in a radio telegram the sinking of four ships totalling 26000 tons from a convoy.
In fact, only the unescorted Dan Beard (Master William Robert Wilson) was hit at 13.55 hours by one torpedo in rough seas off Strumble Head, North Wales."

It's kinda hard to mistaken a single unescorted merchant ship for a convoy...

LOL

[A Very Super Market]

The biggest liars are probably players like ourselves. Just how many times has the Hood been sunk already?!

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by BasilY

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/3388.html

"On 10 Dec, 1944, U-1202 reported in a radio telegram the sinking of four ships totalling 26000 tons from a convoy.
In fact, only the unescorted Dan Beard (Master William Robert Wilson) was hit at 13.55 hours by one torpedo in rough seas off Strumble Head, North Wales."

It's kinda hard to mistaken a single unescorted merchant ship for a convoy...

Could have been pure despair.
In Oct 1944 the U-Boats were really hard pressed by the allied. Maybe he needed some sort of success to not meet with some interrogators after coming back and be reagrded a coward (which was quite unhealthy in Germany by that time).

[BasilY]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Could have been pure despair.
In Oct 1944 the U-Boats were really hard pressed by the allied. Maybe he needed some sort of success to not meet with some interrogators after coming back and be reagrded a coward (which was quite unhealthy in Germany by that time).

That's true, a captain Hirsacker ( http://uboat.net/men/commanders/495.html ) was shot for cowardice. And he had 3 confirmed kills. Maybe he can be just a little bit more liberal about his claims, he could have survived the war.