ASW missiles: help

[SandyCaesar]

Hello, all.

First, I've been playing DW quite a bit recently, and I've loved it. I'm currently using v1.04 with LwAmi-3.08 and the Sakura mod. I'll apologize if someone's had this discussion before, but I trawled my way through a few pages and it seems no one else is mentioning this.

My problem involves the damned Russian SUBROCs and ASROCs. Not the US Spruance/Tico/Burke ones, which work okay, but the Russian SS-N-14/15/16/27 ASW series, both player-launched and AI-launched, as well as the RBU depth charge launchers. The problem: their splashdown ranges. In most cases, the payload torpedo hits the water way beyond the range of the target. So, if I'm shooting at a target sub at, say, 20nmi, the torpedo is almost guaranteed to land in the water 23 to 24 miles beyond. That, coupled with a ridiculously small seeker cone and a microscopic fuel tank for the APR-3E torpedo (the LwAmi payload for the Stallion and the SS-N-27 ASW), means that my SUBROCs in the Akula are doing little more than broadcasting my location. To try to get around this, I've tried to use snapshots with manually inputted ranges. The result: same thing. Even if I land an APR-3 near a target, it'll miss most of the time: I have yet to see any APRs enter terminal homing mode, because they just plain always miss.

I know, also, that it's not just my bad marksmanship. The computer has the same problem, apparently. The last time a Victor-III tried to lob a SUBROC salvo at me (...which was, embarrassingly enough, in Molon Labe's training mission...I took too long to get off a sprint) the missile overshot by several nautical miles and never even picked up my 688I. It was worth a laugh when I saw the Truth picture of the Vic frantically lobbing Stallion after Stallion at me and missing horribly. Similar things have been happening with the AI: in one memorable experience, a "friendly" Udaloy trying to ward off an Akula in a Campaign mission overshot and sunk the Typhoon she was supposed to be guarding.

Any help? Anyone?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by SandyCaesar

Hello, all.

First, I've been playing DW quite a bit recently, and I've loved it. I'm currently using v1.04 with LwAmi-3.08 and the Sakura mod. I'll apologize if someone's had this discussion before, but I trawled my way through a few pages and it seems no one else is mentioning this.

My problem involves the damned Russian SUBROCs and ASROCs. Not the US Spruance/Tico/Burke ones, which work okay, but the Russian SS-N-14/15/16/27 ASW series, both player-launched and AI-launched, as well as the RBU depth charge launchers. The problem: their splashdown ranges. In most cases, the payload torpedo hits the water way beyond the range of the target. So, if I'm shooting at a target sub at, say, 20nmi, the torpedo is almost guaranteed to land in the water 23 to 24 miles beyond. That, coupled with a ridiculously small seeker cone and a microscopic fuel tank for the APR-3E torpedo (the LwAmi payload for the Stallion and the SS-N-27 ASW), means that my SUBROCs in the Akula are doing little more than broadcasting my location. To try to get around this, I've tried to use snapshots with manually inputted ranges. The result: same thing. Even if I land an APR-3 near a target, it'll miss most of the time: I have yet to see any APRs enter terminal homing mode, because they just plain always miss.

I know, also, that it's not just my bad marksmanship. The computer has the same problem, apparently. The last time a Victor-III tried to lob a SUBROC salvo at me (...which was, embarrassingly enough, in Molon Labe's training mission...I took too long to get off a sprint) the missile overshot by several nautical miles and never even picked up my 688I. It was worth a laugh when I saw the Truth picture of the Vic frantically lobbing Stallion after Stallion at me and missing horribly. Similar things have been happening with the AI: in one memorable experience, a "friendly" Udaloy trying to ward off an Akula in a Campaign mission overshot and sunk the Typhoon she was supposed to be guarding.

Any help? Anyone?

This is a strange one. The phenomenon of ASW missiles splashing down beyond their "enable" range is a known issue with stock DW, so much so that charts were made so that players could look up the actual splashdown range so they could compensate when selecting presets. LWAMI corrected this with a modified doctrine in the very early versions of the mod. Stock AI will miss consistently because the AI doesn't "know" to use the charts to compensate; LWAMI AI will hit or miss depending on the quality of the solution, which isn't usually available for the player to check on. So AI missing isn't surprising, but overshoots from player-inputted presets should not be occurring. Also, if you're using fire control autocrew at all, don't; it's completely ****ed and shouldn't be used by anyone, ever.

I'd suggest the following. First, fire up a random mission and shoot an ASW missile at a specific spot in space, and simply use the range circle tool to verify the splashdown range. Better yet, try it with a salvo of missiles set on the same course but with 5nm between each.

If there is a consistent difference (say, of more than 1nm), then something's definitely wrong. I would overwrite the doctrine directory with a fresh copy of the LWAMI doctrines. But, if you're landing missiles at or near the intended splashdown point, as seems to be the case in your later examples, then regardless of whether actual acquisitions are occurring, the doctrine is working properly.

[SandyCaesar]

Thanks for the suggestion, Molon Labe--and d'oh!

SUBROCs work like a charm now. I found the problem: it's a classic case of the PICNIC Syndrome (Problem In Chair, Not In Computer). What happened was that I discovered the problem while I was still using stock. Then I found LwAmi, and then I found the chart. Resolving to test out the SUBROCs using the splashdown charts, I did so, not knowing that LwAmi had gotten it already...

Most of problems nowadays were caused by me shooting from the NAV chart. (Wasn't using FC autos, but I didn't manually set the ranges.) After I set the ranges manually, of course, splashdowns and kills. I suppose this means the AI likes to fire off their rockets without verifying their solutions, but eh. Still, I've yet to see RBUs used to good effect.

Time to terrorize those Imperialist Dogs/Western Infidels/Renegade Russians...

BTW, since we're on the topic of ASROCs: anyone notice that the AI likes to use them even in littoral waters? Nearly laughed myself to death on the ASW Penetration mission (comes with the game) when the Spru-can rippled off a barrage of ASROCs in 25m water. (And VL-Asrocs should have 28nmi range, unlike their non-VLA counterparts.)

[Dr.Sid]

Yeah .. known problem too. Not fixed. Most of the time in shallow water you are completely safe. Once I played some mission where it was too shallow for helos and surface ships to shoot at me. There was also sub nearby but I was shielded from it by more shallow water where its torpedoes hit the bottom. So I sent mine around with wire-guide

As for the range fix. Imagine destroyer firing 10 asrocs on you. I actually liked the times they all totally missed

[Frame57]

Okay, I have the manual for DW and cannot find "Splashdown charts". I still try to enter the RTE manually and the ROCS are never close to dropping their payload accurately. How do the splashdown charts function?

[Dr.Sid]

Nono .. these charts are not part of the game manuals. It's a bug in the game that the missiles miss. IIRC it was yards vs. feets trouble or something.

So first someone made the charts to adjust the range.

Then LWAMI fixed it for good. You should use LWAMI and you will need no chart.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Frame57

Okay, I have the manual for DW and cannot find "Splashdown charts". I still try to enter the RTE manually and the ROCS are never close to dropping their payload accurately. How do the splashdown charts function?

the chart (well, a table, actually) is linked in post 2, supra.